Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 106

Thread: If Crimea says 'Da!,' what's next?

  1. #11
    Sage
    EnigmaO01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    7,026

    Re: If Crimea says 'Da!,' what's next?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Then explain how it was all right for the USA to spend $5 billion to create NGOs, train protestors and militants, establish supply and transportation networks, and support the overthrow af a DEMOCRATICALLY elected scumbag in Ukraine and install the leader chosen by our State Department/CIA as acknowledged by the Victoria Nuland phone conversation? And now to have OLIGARCHS in control of some areas? CORPORATE hegemony, eh?
    Allegations with no proof.

  2. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-26-14 @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,032

    Re: If Crimea says 'Da!,' what's next?

    It's not an "if" question. Crime WILL vote yes to independence from Russia. Whether they become part of the Russian federation or become an "independent" state is another issue.

    Ehm, there is nothing to do. We must all understand that the right of self-determination trumps geopolitical considerations. And the majority of people in Crimea don't want to be part of Ukraine and if they express that view this saturday/sunday in the referendum, then that's that. We have to respect that. To be clear, I'm not saying that the referendum will fair and handled properly... I'm saying that regardless whether there will be corruption at the votes or not, the outcome will still be the same. But instead of having a, say 60% "YES" you'll have a 80% or more.

    Hopefully it ends there. Pray that it ends there. I do mean it. Ukraine will have to accept that is the desire of the majority in Crime and maybe, you know, if ukrainians in Crimea will want to get out, there should be some sort of govt program to facilitate repatriation. Other than that, there is nothing we can or should do. You must understand that despite your objections, or mine for that matter, Crimea is ethnically Russian and the ethnicity of a region makes that region.
    There is no "cold war".

    Let me put it this way. If this were a "cold war" scenario, it should have started with Georgia, not now. This is just a superpower flexing it's muscles. The difference between this Ukraine situation and georgia is that mainly, for Ukraine, the EU (and more recently the USA)is willing to put itself on the line to keep Russia out of it where as no superpower was willing to put it's ass on the line for Georgia. That's why Putin could easily chop 1/4th of Georgia off. But now since he's meeting massive resistance and very real dangers from the EU (the russian stock market has been dropping like a brick for a week now, even today, it's crashed by 5% or smth like that), the real kind of danger -> econimic danger. That is the kind that will cripple Russia. the EU has an abundance of trading partners and trading possibilities. You tell me one country or region on this planet that wouldn't want to sign up trade agreements worth almost 200bil euros -> that's about as much money Russia makes from trade with the EU. Losing even a fraction of that will cripple Russia' economy.

  3. #13
    Sage
    EnigmaO01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    7,026

    Re: If Crimea says 'Da!,' what's next?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    But it's OK to have mercenaries in there. Hypocrisy! I think it needs Russian troops to ensure its' stability and protect the citizens from Western Banks and Energy Conglomerates.
    What mercenaries?

  4. #14
    Iconoclast
    DaveFagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    wny
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:16 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,290

    Re: If Crimea says 'Da!,' what's next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Dave, where did I say that? Get real.
    You state that the "bear is out of the cage" indicting Russia as the destabilizing influence. I have identified the actual destabilizing influence and it is not Russia. It is the USA that is getting the Cold War going again. Good for the Military/Industrial/Corporate complex and armaments profits. Any war is good marketing when you're in the arms business. War is good business and the USA is about business.

  5. #15
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    okla-freakin-homa
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,619

    Re: If Crimea says 'Da!,' what's next?

    Our Grand and Glorious Republic has a cherished history of invading at gunpoint to enforce trade/treaty/corporate deals. (Commodore Perry in Japan and the Marines in the 'Banana Wars' comes to mind. Can't recall anyone in government renouncing those actions) Let's not forget the CIA attempts to overthrow democratically elected presidents, assassination attempts and the World Bank dictating severe economic upheavals as part of any aid given. We seem to be the pot looking hard at a kettle.

    But given that the Crimea has not been a historic part of the Ukraine I'd say these people get to decide who they want to snuggle with.

    Our nation doesn't give aid with no strings attached in places we care about. The HUGE bribes we give Egypt and Israel to play nice is a good example. The Ukraine has been helped to a far greater extent by the Russians than by the Europeans or USofA. This doesn't mean the Russians get to invade (like we did throughout the Caribbean when Reagan was our President- to include illegal support for right wing terror squads in the Iran-Contra scandal) because they want the Ukraine to toe the Russian line. But it does show how important the Ukraine is to the Russians and how much it didn't, until now, matter to the Europeans and 'Mericans.

    There was some talk of an aid package for the Ukraine in Congress- how is that going?

  6. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-26-14 @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,032

    Re: If Crimea says 'Da!,' what's next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Continuing economic and political isolation for Russia. No one (government or private individual) will trust Putin for the forseeable even if he withdraws.
    He wont' withdraw from Crimea (not that he admits to ever being there to begin with) because it's basically political career suicide back home. If you're going to be a despot, better be seen as a strong, unyielding despot than a weak one.

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    It will have to be ensured that Russia does not send troops into eastern Ukraine.
    That is a very real danger. Look into the Europe subforum on a thread I made about violent protests in Donetsk region. It's one of the 4 Oblasts that have majority russian speaking populations. Donetsk, Kharkiv and Luhanska Oblasts have all seen massive pro-russian demonstrations and you do see the russian flag flying over Ukrainian buildings in those 3 regions.

  7. #17
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: If Crimea says 'Da!,' what's next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Continuing economic and political isolation for Russia. No one (government or private individual) will trust Putin for the forseeable even if he withdraws.
    No one??
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #18
    Guru
    Ben K.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,717

    Re: If Crimea says 'Da!,' what's next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No one??
    What country do you think isn't already rethinking their relationship with Russia?

  9. #19
    Guru
    Ben K.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,717

    Re: If Crimea says 'Da!,' what's next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    He wont' withdraw from Crimea (not that he admits to ever being there to begin with) because it's basically political career suicide back home. If you're going to be a despot, better be seen as a strong, unyielding despot than a weak one.
    That's the problem. He's put himself in a lose-lose situation in terms of long term outcome no matter the status of Crimea he may feel compelled to double down and cause more damage.

    That's happened a lot to me when I lose a few hands of poker.

  10. #20
    Guru

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    In a Blue State
    Last Seen
    12-07-17 @ 03:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,732

    Re: If Crimea says 'Da!,' what's next?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    You state that the "bear is out of the cage" indicting Russia as the destabilizing influence. I have identified the actual destabilizing influence and it is not Russia. It is the USA that is getting the Cold War going again. Good for the Military/Industrial/Corporate complex and armaments profits. Any war is good marketing when you're in the arms business. War is good business and the USA is about business.
    Dave, Russia invaded. Last I checked, that is highly destabilizing. The Ukraine was a sovereign nation recognized by the world.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •