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Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

No group has taken credit thus far. IF it's correct that the two communications systems were shut down 14 minutes apart, who did this? I know nothing about planes, so apologies in advance for a dumb question, but can either of these be shut down from the ground?
 
nota bene said:
No group has taken credit thus far. IF it's correct that the two communications systems were shut down 14 minutes apart, who did this? I know nothing about planes, so apologies in advance for a dumb question, but can either of these be shut down from the ground?
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Nope. You need physical access to the cockpit. Theoretically you could cut the right wire but there's no frigging way a passenger is going to be able to get to it, and you'd basically have to be an engineer to find it.
 
Blue_State said:
From what I understand is some of the systems have a service charge to send that money. Airlines don't pay for the service so the info is not captured. Sending and receiving data is relatively expensive for entire airline fleets.
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The telemetry still happens, it's just not passed on to the owner unless they pay for it. For example Rolls Royce constantly monitor all their jet engines worldwide.
 
This is a theory I haven't heard before.....



...As part of the investigation, officials are looking into concerns that lithium batteries in the cargo hold, which have been blamed in previous crashes, could have played a role in the disappearance, according to U.S. officials briefed on the latest intelligence and law enforcement developments in the investigation. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release details to the media.....
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Missing Malaysian plane: Could it have landed? - CNN.com

Lithium batteries in the cargo hold? How would that turn off transponders and communication?


Imo, it's starting to look like the plane crashed into the ocean...which one I don't know. But the pings picked up on satelite during the four hours after the plane lost contact suggest it might be the Indian Ocean. However, China picked up a small earthquake event under the ocean near Vietnam about an hour after the plane went missing. I don't know that a plane would cause an 2.5 earthquake from crashing through several hundred feet of water onto the seabed so I'm starting to think the plane likely crashed into the Indian Ocean after veering off course.

Did the plane veer off course before or after it's transponders shut off?
 
MaggieD said:
This may end up being one of the biggest mysteries of the 21st Century. Not that they don't find the wreckage, but that now it appears there may not be any.

I find it interesting that we're busy patting down gramma and yet don't have live feeds in black boxes. Should we BOLO for an unidentified plane carrying massive explosives headed towards a major city now?

Will posts soon be relegated to the Conspiracy Forum?
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Biggest mysteries of the 21st Century? That's got to be the biggest overstatement of the 21st Century.

- There was no wreckage commensurate with Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in Shanksville, PA.
- There was no wreckage commensurate with a Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in Arlington, VA.
- There was no wreckage commensurate with any Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in New York, that was ever identified by any OEM.

Contrast that with ValueJet and TWA. In both cases, the NTSB, FAA and OEMs were standing side-by-side nearly every single day for weeks giving press conferences and identifying specific and particular components of each airframe as they discovered them. You could not escape your television at night without sitting through a long winded discovery session involving Flight 800 and Flight 592. Yet, we had not one (1) but four (4) commercial heavies go down on American soil and not one single OEM stood with anyone from the NTSB or the FAA to tell the American People that they had recovered and identified some portion of an aircraft that it identified as being a manufactured component coming form its company. Not one.

If that does not qualify as the biggest mystery of the 21st Century, then Flight 370 never had a chance to rank so high on the stench meeter.
 
PW4000 said:
Biggest mysteries of the 21st Century? That's got to be the biggest overstatement of the 21st Century.

- There was no wreckage commensurate with Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in Shanksville, PA.
- There was no wreckage commensurate with a Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in Arlington, VA.
- There was no wreckage commensurate with any Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in New York, that was ever identified by any OEM.

Contrast that with ValueJet and TWA. In both cases, the NTSB, FAA and OEMs were standing side-by-side nearly every single day for weeks giving press conferences and identifying specific and particular components of each airframe as they discovered them. You could not escape your television at night without sitting through a long winded discovery session involving Flight 800 and Flight 592. Yet, we had not one (1) but four (4) commercial heavies go down on American soil and not one single OEM stood with anyone from the NTSB or the FAA to tell the American People that they had recovered and identified some portion of an aircraft that it identified as being a manufactured component coming form its company. Not one.

If that does not qualify as the biggest mystery of the 21st Century, then Flight 370 never had a chance to rank so high on the stench meeter.
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The crash sites weren't discovered? Links?
 
PW4000 said:
Biggest mysteries of the 21st Century? That's got to be the biggest overstatement of the 21st Century.

- There was no wreckage commensurate with Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in Shanksville, PA.
- There was no wreckage commensurate with a Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in Arlington, VA.
- There was no wreckage commensurate with any Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in New York, that was ever identified by any OEM.

Contrast that with ValueJet and TWA. In both cases, the NTSB, FAA and OEMs were standing side-by-side nearly every single day for weeks giving press conferences and identifying specific and particular components of each airframe as they discovered them. You could not escape your television at night without sitting through a long winded discovery session involving Flight 800 and Flight 592. Yet, we had not one (1) but four (4) commercial heavies go down on American soil and not one single OEM stood with anyone from the NTSB or the FAA to tell the American People that they had recovered and identified some portion of an aircraft that it identified as being a manufactured component coming form its company. Not one.

If that does not qualify as the biggest mystery of the 21st Century, then Flight 370 never had a chance to rank so high on the stench meeter.
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Someone listened to Coast-to-Coast AM, with George Noory, last night. That's exactly what some nutbag guest was saying.
 
Erod said:
It's becoming fairly obvious that this plane was an attempted hijacking.
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Not when you know how such aircraft work and what certain governments are capable of staging.


Erod said:
The question is if it was a successful hijacking. Just where would one land a 777 without a trace?
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CNN should be sued for misleading people. You have to observe the facts and not what the media is telling you. Aircraft climbing to its assigned cruise altitude one minute, then has its transponder "turned off" the next minute. That makes no sense.

This is a pic I have taken from the Boeing 777 Flight Crew Ops Manual. Please show me where you see an "Off" designation for the transponder. This Boeing 777 uses the TPR-901 Mode S Transponder. It is a integrated with the aircraft's TCAS.


1z32hoy.jpg



CNN should be flat out sued because they took you into a "simulator" this morning and convinced you that the TPR-901 Mode-S Transponder on-board the Boeing 777 can be simply "turned off." What they did not tell you is that "off" relates to the Altitude Reporting capability of the TPR-901 Mode-S Transponder and not the transponder itself. The don't tell you that this aircraft does not have a traditional Mode-C transponder with a full transponder "Off" mode. Mode-S transponders have TEST, STBY, ALT ON, and ALT OFF modes which are switch selectable.


Erod said:
After turning off the last transponder device, they could have turned that plane any direction, but you can't exactly land a plane that size in a rice field.
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No. They could have turned Alt-Off. This is a Mode-S transponder. Doing so, would have dropped the transponder from Mode-S into Mode-C/Mode-A/Mode-B responsiveness upon ground based interrogation. The TCAS would have suffered as it needs altitude information to correctly calculate potential incursions.


Erod said:
So if such a conspiracy occurred, what cooperating organization or nation was involved?
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Now, you are thinking like a truly informed human being with that question. All such events, unless mechanically derived, are by definition conspiracies to commit a criminal act. Governments commit criminal acts all the time. So, the real question is: which special operations organization or special activities division is behind this one.
 
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PW4000 said:
Not when you know how such aircraft work and what certain governments are capable of staging.




CNN should be sued for misleading people. You have to observe the facts and not what the media is telling you. Aircraft climbing to its assigned cruise altitude one minute, then has its transponder "turned off" the next minute. That makes no sense.
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Holy **** you claim to be a pilot and don't know what the STBY position on the transponder means?

And have you ever, by chance, taken a close look at the circuit breaker panel? What do you suppose happens when you pull the one corresponding to a transponder?
 
MaggieD said:
The crash sites weren't discovered? Links?
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You want a link to that which is obvious? How does anyone post a link to that which never existed? How about the testimony of First Responders (links to which I have posted here years ago) to Shanksville? Namely, how about the testimony to a reporter of the Mayor of Shanksville? Was he crazy, too - just like me? Was the Major a nut case or a conspiracy theorist, or both?

He was standing mere feet from where he was told a commercial heavy went down and here is what he had to say:



Let me repeat what he said for you: "There was no airplane." How much clearer can it be made for those who do not believe in the truth?

BTW - as a side note, the German reporter who broke this story got summarily FIRED from his job shortly thereafter. Why? Why would a German News Organization fire a reporter for doing his damn job?

These are not "stories." This is the stark reality of rogue government involvement.
 
Deuce said:
Just ignore this person.
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Exactly. Keep tuning into MSM not telling you the difference between TCAS Mode-S and standard Mode-C. Keep sticking your head in the sand and pretending to be informed. Keep walking the earth with blinders on and no ability to reconcile truth from fiction. Keep right on believing in fairytale stories of incompetent people being sophisticated enough to do the near impossible and mathematically insane.

Yep, just ignore it all.
 
PW4000 said:
Exactly. Keep tuning into MSM not telling you the difference between TCAS Mode-S and standard Mode-C. Keep sticking your head in the sand and pretending to be informed. Keep walking the earth with blinders on and no ability to reconcile truth from fiction. Keep right on believing in fairytale stories of incompetent people being sophisticated enough to do the near impossible and mathematically insane.

Yep, just ignore it all.
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It's better than believing the guy who thinks a transponder can't be turned off.
 
Deuce said:
Holy **** you claim to be a pilot and don't know what the STBY position on the transponder means?

And have you ever, by chance, taken a close look at the circuit breaker panel? What do you suppose happens when you pull the one corresponding to a transponder?
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Stop pretending and start educating yourself. My post TELLS you the difference between the two and it tells you the relevant differential between a standard non-TACAS Mode-C and a TCAS Mode-S transponder. If you have questions, just ask - but don't sit here and kid yourself about my qualifications as one having a logbook filled with entries involving high-performance turbine aircraft.

Second, who said anything about pulling a circuit breaker? Where did you learn that information? Did you visit the CNN website who dropped that little bit into their on-line story, but FAILED to tell you this during their on-air "demonstration" in the "simulator?"

Lastly, one would need to know a LOT more about the aircraft systems to pull the correct fuse, which also goes to the lack of credibility that some incompetent skyjacker pulled off yet another downing of a commercial airliner. You are talking about having in-depth knowledge about the electrical system of one of the most sophisticated commercial airframes in the world. Pulling the WRONG fuse could do more harm to your "mission" than good.

How about you go learn something called SATCOM ACARS Avionics Systems. That's the most likely path that leads to an understanding of what happened here, if this matter is not pegged to an isolated physical malfunction (which is mathematically feasible).

Stop pretending. I can give Flight Instruction in the Boeing 757 and the Boeing 737, among many other types of aircraft.
 
Deuce said:
It's better than believing the guy who thinks a transponder can't be turned off.
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The information was put right in front of your eyes and you STILL deny it? That's plain dumb. Are you arguing with the graphic taken directly from the Boeing Manual? Or, are you arguing for the sake of arguing? Show me the full off position in the diagram? And, NAME the type of Transponder in use in that particular Boeing 777. TCAS integrated Mode-S is designed that way for a good reason. Mode-C transponders can be turned full off all day long.

Do you not know the difference between the two?
 
And, what about the Major and his brother-in-law? Are they both hacks, too? The arrived BEFORE the Feds arrived and saw "no airplane." How do you account for that? Why did the German Journalist get fired after delivering this story to the public? Are you even awake, or are you still suffering from the biggest PSYOP in American history?

I want to see ALL SATCOM ACARS transmission from the ground to Flight 370, before I even think about investigating another cause for the disappearance of this aircraft. Or, I want to see the remains of this aircraft in close inspection.

You on the other hand can and afford to be brainwashed, if you so desire.
 
PW4000 said:
Stop pretending and start educating yourself. My post TELLS you the difference between the two and it tells you the relevant differential between a standard non-TACAS Mode-C and a TCAS Mode-S transponder. If you have questions, just ask - but don't sit here and kid yourself about my qualifications as one having a logbook filled with entries involving high-performance turbine aircraft.

Second, who said anything about pulling a circuit breaker? Where did you learn that information? Did you visit the CNN website who dropped that little bit into their on-line story, but FAILED to tell you this during their on-air "demonstration" in the "simulator?"

Lastly, one would need to know a LOT more about the aircraft systems to pull the correct fuse, which also goes to the lack of credibility that some incompetent skyjacker pulled off yet another downing of a commercial airliner. You are talking about having in-depth knowledge about the electrical system of one of the most sophisticated commercial airframes in the world. Pulling the WRONG fuse could do more harm to your "mission" than good.

How about you go learn something called SATCOM ACARS Avionics Systems. That's the most likely path that leads to an understanding of what happened here, if this matter is not pegged to an isolated physical malfunction (which is mathematically feasible).

Stop pretending. I can give Flight Instruction in the Boeing 757 and the Boeing 737, among many other types of aircraft.
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It doesn't matter what CNN told you. What we know is that the transponder turned off. And being allegedly a 757 instructor, you're well aware that a transponder can, in fact, stop responding to interrogations if the pilot really wants that to happen.

I didn't "learn" that information, I'm not suggesting this is a fact. I'm saying it's possible for a pilot to turn off a transponder. Yes, one requires at least some knowledge of an airplane to do that. Pilots have that sort of knowledge.

Stop acting like what you see on CNN is some sort of scenario being presented as proof of what really happened. Everybody is speculating at this point. How and why the transponder was turned off is pure speculation. You are speculating that there is a mission at all.

And quit with the appeal to authority bull****. If you haven't figured it out, I'm a pilot too. You can't claim authority and run away from arguments.
 
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And it is goddamned hilarious that you point to the ACARS system as being indicative of understanding what really happened. You have absolutely, positively no evidence that ACARS was in any way relevant. And that's what differentiates a conspiracy theorist from everybody else. Your (ridiculously convoluted) theories require no evidence.
 
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Deuce said:
It doesn't matter what CNN told you. What we know is that the transponder turned off.
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And, how do you "know" that? Where did you get that information from - CNN?


Deuce said:
And being allegedly a 757 instructor, you're well aware that a transponder can, in fact, stop responding to interrogations if the pilot really wants that to happen.
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You were NOT told that by CNN today. Turning the transponder "off" never came up as a newsworthy discussion until CNN went live with some idiot reporter siting in a "simulator" while telling you that you can indeed turn the transponder "off." What he failed to tell you was that the type of transponder he demonstrated as NOT the same as that installed on Flight 370. What he failed to inform you about is the difference between Mode-S and all other types of encoding transponders. What he intentionally did not tell you, was the aircraft in question deploys BOTH a TACAS and a Transponder, and that the actual interface DOES NOT HAVE a full "off" detent.

The so-called "turning off" of the transponder is merely a Mode Switch and not a functional disabling of the transponder - which begs the question, if you are not a trained Boeing 777 pilot, then how do you know WHICH mode to set? Furthermore, you need learn the difference between being an Internet Expert and a Real World Expert. The mode switch on a TCAS linked Mode-S transponder when set to "Alt Off" does not prevent the transponder from responding to interrogations. De-Moding the xPdr simply shifts its response mode.

The real problem here, is that too many people have allowed themselves to be run down the rabbit's hole (just like on September 11th, 2001) by the media, only to jump on-line and proliferate the errors being dumped into their heads. Why does the media set such erroneous expectations? Because it knows that people just like you, will run off into the wild and begin repeating that which is clearly false (just like on September 11th, 2001). In the meantime, people just like me sit and shake our heads in pure disgust at how easily others are duped.

There are NOT a million different things that could have happened to Flight 370. So, you can speculate to your hearts content. What I want to see are the last transmissions through the Datalink. The MCDU and FMS are integrally linked to the SATCAM capable ACARS, which is one high probability gateway to the FCS. Once you gain control to the FCS, you can manipulate the aircraft's physical position with respect to the horizon.

Who has control over the satellites? Who launches them into orbit? Who maintains them? Who maintains the C2 systems (Terrestrial Command & Control)? Government and Military. Not the airlines. And, do you know what SAT based C2 systems are used for my dear friend?:

NASA Glenn Research Center has issued an RFI for potential sources and partners for the design and development of a Command and Control communication (C2) system prototype for unmanned aircraft.
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Links:

UAS Vision.

UAV Tactical Echelon

Lockheed UAV C2


Speculation? Show me the SATCOM transmissions just before the transponder went "off." More importantly, show me the FCS output immediately after the final SATCOM transmissions and before the transponder went so-called "off."
 
Deuce said:
And it is goddamned hilarious that you point to the ACARS system as being indicative of understanding what really happened. You have absolutely, positively no evidence that ACARS was in any way relevant. And that's what differentiates a conspiracy theorist from everybody else. Your (ridiculously convoluted) theories require no evidence.
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I suppose you make the same brain-dead conclusions about the Mayor of Shanksville, and the vanishing of Flight 93, because we've seen no debris field that even remotely resembles that which is to be expected from a high or low angle of attack crash site that was alleged by the official story tellers. Yet, you have the audacity to speak of evidence as though she is your close friend.

The more you type, the more deluded you become. You don't understand the systems or the technology involved, but you want to pretend that you do, and your last statement proves it. Do you even know the difference between SATCOM ACARS and RF ACARS? Did you even know that there were mutliple ACARS carrier types? Do you have the slightest idea what you are talking about?

A commercial aircraft weighing well over 200,000lbs has just vanished with more than 230 people on-board. That aircraft just happened to be a Boeing 777. A Boeing 777 is not a Boeing 727. The Boeing 777's avionics suite, flight management system, navigation system and air data systems are different. It was designed with aviation technology that DID NOT EXIST during the development of the Boeing 727.

So, when you sit on the fat of your rear-end and conclude that ACARS had absolutely nothing to do with the traceless disappearance of Flight 370, it tells me and anyone having any clue whatsoever, that you are grasping for straws and clutching to anything that gives you credibility on the subject. Why? Because, absent a local, physical, mechanical abnormality as cause, the ONLY way to communicate with Flight 370's FMS, is through its SATCOM ACARS. Why? Because you CANNOT direct the FMS/FMC through any other means absent direct, local, physical intervention on-board the aircraft.

That means that there are ONLY two (2) possibilities:

1) Someone physically skyjacked a Boeing 777 over water with a fuel load offering no more than a 2,200nm radius.

2) Someone virtually skyjacked a Boeing 777 over water from the ground and through SATCOM ACARS with the exact same 2,200nm radius.

Either way, until we find debris that says otherwise - I am 100% certain that someone skyjacked Flight 370. Whether physical or virtual, remains to be seen. That this aircraft was skyjacked by someone, is not even a question in my mind given the evidence thus far.
 
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PW4000 said:
And, how do you "know" that? Where did you get that information from - CNN?
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So you think the transponder was functioning the whole time? I don't understand. ATC lost the transponders. You're the first person I've heard challenge that notion.

You were NOT told that by CNN today.
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You keep bringing up CNN. Why? I don't watch CNN.

Turning the transponder "off" never came up as a newsworthy discussion until CNN went live with some idiot reporter siting in a "simulator" while telling you that you can indeed turn the transponder "off." What he failed to tell you was that the type of transponder he demonstrated as NOT the same as that installed on Flight 370. What he failed to inform you about is the difference between Mode-S and all other types of encoding transponders. What he intentionally did not tell you, was the aircraft in question deploys BOTH a TACAS and a Transponder, and that the actual interface DOES NOT HAVE a full "off" detent.

The so-called "turning off" of the transponder is merely a Mode Switch and not a functional disabling of the transponder - which begs the question, if you are not a trained Boeing 777 pilot, then how do you know WHICH mode to set? Furthermore, you need learn the difference between being an Internet Expert and a Real World Expert. The mode switch on a TCAS linked Mode-S transponder when set to "Alt Off" does not prevent the transponder from responding to interrogations. De-Moding the xPdr simply shifts its response mode.
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And what does the STBY position do? What does pulling a circuit breaker do?



There are NOT a million different things that could have happened to Flight 370. So, you can speculate to your hearts content. What I want to see are the last transmissions through the Datalink. The MCDU and FMS are integrally linked to the SATCAM capable ACARS, which is one high probability gateway to the FCS. Once you gain control to the FCS, you can manipulate the aircraft's physical position with respect to the horizon.
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You might know something about airplanes, but you don't know **** about computers. The fact that two systems are plugged into each other does not make one a magical gateway to take over the other. Autopilots, FMS, and ACARS are programmed to perform specific functions, and none of those functions include flight control commands coming from anywhere but the two guys in the cockpit. This isn't a freaking Windows operating system, you can't just run arbitrary commands. Without serious modification of the software of these components, a command to change course coming from the outside would just be ignored because the ACARS has no idea what to do with a command to change pitch or roll.

Your theory requires someone to heavily modify the software of these systems, and that is not something that can be done remotely. You can't remotely command an ACARS or FMS to frigging update its core software in-flight. It's impossible. So they'd have to do it on the ground, along with installing this comic book villain poison gas cylinder. We're talking software engineers familiar with these systems, maintenance crews you've planted... and this is more likely than somebody figuring out which circuit breaker to pull?

You cannot declare anything I've "repeated" to be false, because you don't know any more about what happened than I do.

Duped? What have we been duped by? Nobody in this thread is saying they know what happened. Your theory is just stupider than most.

You seem under the impression that I have ruled out physical intervention. I'm not sure where you got an idea that mind-bogglingly stupid.
 
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Manc Skipper said:
The telemetry still happens, it's just not passed on to the owner unless they pay for it. For example Rolls Royce constantly monitor all their jet engines worldwide.
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Was going to point that out.

Sure as hell the aircraft manufacturers and engine manufacturers would want a record of their planes/engines for legal reasons at some point.
 
ecofarm said:
Someone listened to Coast-to-Coast AM, with George Noory, last night. That's exactly what some nutbag guest was saying.
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Maybe he IS the guest? :lol:
 
Don't trust any pilots here. Just wait till the blackbox is found. We have deep interest as we share a common land and sea border.
 
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