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Thread: Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

  1. #21
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    Re: Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I wonder how our air defense monitors commercial and private aircraft. What if a plane just wasn't sending a code? How long would it take air defense to spot it?
    Without a transponder, your aircraft still shows up as a primary target, meaning the radar on the ground is bouncing off something. Secondary radar interrogates the transponder for identifying the target, obtaining altitude data, and getting a better position fix. Coming up as only a primary target while traveling that fast sticks out like a sore thumb, because something that fast has to be a jet, and why the heck isn't there a transponder? And look, it's headed towards our border. Fighters will be on the way. The lack of transponders would make for a faster response, I expect.

    If I were trying to sneak a jet into the US, I'd try to disguise myself as a private flight. Problem is, it's a 777 and not a Gulfstream or a Learjet. The difference is rather noticeable to anyone within visual range, which is going to happen sooner or later. And you'd have to fake a passenger manifest.

    That's a great point, though. Where could it land without some other country's governmental cooperation?

    Very very weird.
    It's a plane that needs 6000 feet of good concrete to land, closer to 10,000 if you want it to actually take off again. Which is why I'm convinced it didn't land. This is not something you can put down on some drug cartel's dirt strip. There aren't a lot of places that have somewhere to hide a 777 that don't also have a ton of people around.

    Fun fact: the engines on this thing are (about) the same diameter as the fuselage of a 737.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'll say I'm absolutely no expert either.

    There are problems Maggie, as you mention - it's why drug traffickers are able to fly planes at low altitude into countries to drop off drugs without detection. A plane without a transponder, taking off from an uncertified airstrip, and flying a altitudes below those required for radar to detect, can make their way across borders.

    Now, getting into a populated area at low altitude would not be an easy task because everyone and their granny would be calling 911 to tell the authorities that a really low flying plane just flew over their house - but by then, it might be too late to do much about it. It's likely that a city like New York has some detection devices in place to pinpoint unauthorized planes coming near them.
    If I'm not mistaken, I think many major cities have established no-fly zones. I know Chicago did, after 911. During the NATO summit in Chicago, there was an 18,000-ft no-fly zone established by the FAA within ten nautical miles of downtown Chicago with shoot-down orders in place; and lesser restrictions for further away. No-Fly Zone To Be Enforced By Shoot-To-Kill Order During NATO Summit « CBS Chicago

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    Re: Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, I think many major cities have established no-fly zones. I know Chicago did, after 911. During the NATO summit in Chicago, there was an 18,000-ft no-fly zone established by the FAA within ten nautical miles of downtown Chicago with shoot-down orders in place; and lesser restrictions for further away. No-Fly Zone To Be Enforced By Shoot-To-Kill Order During NATO Summit « CBS Chicago
    True, but this is for "authorized" aircraft that is being tracked by conventional means. Just because it's a designated no fly zone, doesn't mean a terrorist will abide by that designation. It's why I say there must be some other, unconventional or secret means of identifying aircraft entering the airspace or coming their way. But what do I know??
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'll say I'm absolutely no expert either.

    There are problems Maggie, as you mention - it's why drug traffickers are able to fly planes at low altitude into countries to drop off drugs without detection. A plane without a transponder, taking off from an uncertified airstrip, and flying a altitudes below those required for radar to detect, can make their way across borders.

    Now, getting into a populated area at low altitude would not be an easy task because everyone and their granny would be calling 911 to tell the authorities that a really low flying plane just flew over their house - but by then, it might be too late to do much about it. It's likely that a city like New York has some detection devices in place to pinpoint unauthorized planes coming near them.
    A 777 can't take off from a small, uncertified airstrip without its gear collapsing or smashing into trees, and it can't fly that low for very long before it runs out of fuel. (large jets are incredibly inefficient at low altitudes)

    And something that big is very, very easy to see on radar. It's just not feasible to get an airliner into the country this way.

    Cities do not have "no fly zones," but they do have air traffic control facilities that will respond to unauthorized entry into the airspace. But if a jet gets that far, it's too late to intercept.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    A 777 can't take off from a small, uncertified airstrip without its gear collapsing or smashing into trees, and it can't fly that low for very long before it runs out of fuel. (large jets are incredibly inefficient at low altitudes)

    And something that big is very, very easy to see on radar. It's just not feasible to get an airliner into the country this way.

    Cities do not have "no fly zones," but they do have air traffic control facilities that will respond to unauthorized entry into the airspace. But if a jet gets that far, it's too late to intercept.
    Sorry - I wasn't referring to this aircraft that went missing, but to Maggie's broader point about an airplane being able to enter the country undetected and deliver some type of explosive device somewhere. It certainly wouldn't be a 777 type of aircraft, but seems to me it's not an impossible scenario.
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    Re: Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

    No group has taken credit thus far. IF it's correct that the two communications systems were shut down 14 minutes apart, who did this? I know nothing about planes, so apologies in advance for a dumb question, but can either of these be shut down from the ground?

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    Re: Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    No group has taken credit thus far. IF it's correct that the two communications systems were shut down 14 minutes apart, who did this? I know nothing about planes, so apologies in advance for a dumb question, but can either of these be shut down from the ground?
    Nope. You need physical access to the cockpit. Theoretically you could cut the right wire but there's no frigging way a passenger is going to be able to get to it, and you'd basically have to be an engineer to find it.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    From what I understand is some of the systems have a service charge to send that money. Airlines don't pay for the service so the info is not captured. Sending and receiving data is relatively expensive for entire airline fleets.
    The telemetry still happens, it's just not passed on to the owner unless they pay for it. For example Rolls Royce constantly monitor all their jet engines worldwide.
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    Re: Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

    This is a theory I haven't heard before.....



    ...As part of the investigation, officials are looking into concerns that lithium batteries in the cargo hold, which have been blamed in previous crashes, could have played a role in the disappearance, according to U.S. officials briefed on the latest intelligence and law enforcement developments in the investigation. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release details to the media.....
    Missing Malaysian plane: Could it have landed? - CNN.com

    Lithium batteries in the cargo hold? How would that turn off transponders and communication?


    Imo, it's starting to look like the plane crashed into the ocean...which one I don't know. But the pings picked up on satelite during the four hours after the plane lost contact suggest it might be the Indian Ocean. However, China picked up a small earthquake event under the ocean near Vietnam about an hour after the plane went missing. I don't know that a plane would cause an 2.5 earthquake from crashing through several hundred feet of water onto the seabed so I'm starting to think the plane likely crashed into the Indian Ocean after veering off course.

    Did the plane veer off course before or after it's transponders shut off?

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    Re: Investigators reportedly eye 'sabotage' in Malaysian jet disappearance

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    This may end up being one of the biggest mysteries of the 21st Century. Not that they don't find the wreckage, but that now it appears there may not be any.

    I find it interesting that we're busy patting down gramma and yet don't have live feeds in black boxes. Should we BOLO for an unidentified plane carrying massive explosives headed towards a major city now?

    Will posts soon be relegated to the Conspiracy Forum?


    Biggest mysteries of the 21st Century? That's got to be the biggest overstatement of the 21st Century.

    - There was no wreckage commensurate with Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in Shanksville, PA.
    - There was no wreckage commensurate with a Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in Arlington, VA.
    - There was no wreckage commensurate with any Boeing Commercial Heavy having gone down in New York, that was ever identified by any OEM.

    Contrast that with ValueJet and TWA. In both cases, the NTSB, FAA and OEMs were standing side-by-side nearly every single day for weeks giving press conferences and identifying specific and particular components of each airframe as they discovered them. You could not escape your television at night without sitting through a long winded discovery session involving Flight 800 and Flight 592. Yet, we had not one (1) but four (4) commercial heavies go down on American soil and not one single OEM stood with anyone from the NTSB or the FAA to tell the American People that they had recovered and identified some portion of an aircraft that it identified as being a manufactured component coming form its company. Not one.

    If that does not qualify as the biggest mystery of the 21st Century, then Flight 370 never had a chance to rank so high on the stench meeter.

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