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New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MaggieD said:
IMO, if the lady said no, the hospital would honor her wishes. They have no contract with the guy. They do have HIPPA obligations to the patient. By the time it got sorted in court which is what would have to happen if the lady continued to say no? It'd be a moot point.
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Oh, I understand all this. It is just that unless a surrogate mother and her doctor could give some valid reason for why they couldn't be in the birthing room with her after she agreed in a contract, then they would have more legal recourse for that than he does (even if it is after the birth). Not that they would necessarily win, but it is more likely that they would be able to win in that case than a father in general because they do have a prior agreement and the child is theirs from the start. Now, there is definitely some circumstances where she could bar them or even doctors could, but I think in the specific case of her being a surrogate, it would have to be supported by something (even if it is a disagreement with the parents or something like that).

But that is a specific circumstance too. It would be akin to someone agreeing in a contract to do some medical research procedure then trying to bar the researchers.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MildSteel said:
Well Sarah just ain't quite on level for Mt Rushmore. And if you were going to do it for that, she's ok, but there are much better.
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Like who?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
Here's a terrific compromise. We bow to the equality warriors and put a female face up there but it has to be Governor Palin. Now, how badly do they want that female face up there?
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Holy cow!!!!You consider Palin to be up there with George, Tom, Ted, and Abe??

I thought this thread jumped the shark before...now we have someone thinking Palin is a figure as important as they are!
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ecofarm said:
Like who?
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Well if I start going down that road, I will likely get banned, so I'm gonna leave it at that!!! lol
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gipper said:
I never gave you permission to speak...
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Don't need it.

But it does not surprise me that you think I need your permission.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gipper said:
Haha.

Of course not.
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Can you show me the law that supports this assertion?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gipper said:
It's not about law. Very few judges would order female-based support.
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Only about 15% huh?

There are actually a lot of deadbeat moms out there who don't pay child support, just as there are deadbeat dads. To believe that it never happens is ignorant.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

roguenuke said:
Only about 15% huh?

There are actually a lot of deadbeat moms out there who don't pay child support, just as there are deadbeat dads. To believe that it never happens is ignorant.
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I never said "never".

I'm just not going to take Ebony magazine at face value, sorry.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gipper said:
I never said "never".

I'm just not going to take Ebony magazine at face value, sorry.
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I'm willing to bet it is only because of your own preconceived beliefs about this. We know women are ordered to pay child support and that it is an increasing trend. Why would it be necessary for them to lie?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

roguenuke said:
I'm willing to bet it is only because of your own preconceived beliefs about this. We know women are ordered to pay child support and that it is an increasing trend. Why would it be necessary for them to lie?
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For women to lie?

Thanks for the laugh. I thoroughly enjoyed that.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
You mean like it's not necessary for your husband to have a monogamous sexual relationship with you in order to be a good husband? Does my opinion on your marriage mean anything?

These things are not for you nor me to say, this man believes that he needs to be in that delivery room to be a good father.
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No, the man has an opinion on what he wants, and when he did not get it he threw a temper tantrum and acted like a little pathetic jerk IMHO by suing the mother of his child in this way.

And as for opinions, you do know what Dirty Harry said about opinions:



And his "opinions" about where he has a right to be means absolutely not a darned thing, the judge has punt the exclamation mark on that one. The privacy rights of the mother are way way way way way more important that the pathetic opinions of this selfish bully.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Erod said:
Dude isn't a husband, a father, and certainly not a "dad". Those titles are earned, not inherent.

Right now, he's a "hook-up", and nothing more.
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This. He's an ex-boyfriend, not her husband, and they obviously went through a pretty messy break up and don't even really like one another.

The guy simply doesn't have much of a leg to stand on here. There's no reason whatsoever why he should have to be in the room for the delivery.

OscarB63 said:
I'd tell her to go **** herself and be a dick about every ****ing support payment. ****, I'd take the time to go to the bank and pay her ****ing ass in pennies every month.

"hey, here's this month's child support. seventy-five thousand pennies." and make her sign a ****ing receipt for them
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OscarB63 said:
If he has no rights, then he should bear no responsibility.....
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I agree with you on this. If a woman wants to raise a child completely without the father's input, she should really support the child herself as well.

If she's not willing or able to do that, and if some extenuating circumstance is not present, she should be willing to compromise.

However, I don't see that as necessarily translating into a "right" to be present in the delivery room. If the guy's clearly not wanted, it doesn't serve any real purpose other than to cause the mother (who is already undergoing a rather traumatic experience to begin with) additional distress.

year2late said:
Idle curiosity, this natural process....do you have any concept of maternal complications that happened before the advent of modern medical care?
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Again, to be fair, the most common cause of maternal mortality in the pre-modern era and in the pre-industrialized world today was / is actually infection and sepsis, caused by unsanitary living conditions or medical practices (physicians not washing their hands or properly sterilizing needles before suturing, etca), not complications from the delivery itself.

Death from the process of actually pushing the baby out has always been somewhat rare. It may take an ungodly long time in some cases, but women's bodies do tend to figure these things out on their own more often than not.

Modern medicine just likes to speed things up by intervening.
 
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I'll be the devil's advocate... and say that if this guy decided he doesn't have to pay child support, a lot of people would be bitching about him being a deadbeat. I say if he's not allowed access to his kid, he has absolutely no responsibility towards the mother or the child.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gathomas88 said:
This. He's an ex-boyfriend, not her husband, and they obviously went through a pretty messy break up and don't even really like one another.

The guy simply doesn't have much of a leg to stand on here. There's no reason whatsoever why he should have to be in the room for the delivery.





I agree with you on this. If a woman wants to raise a child completely without the father's input, she should really support the child herself as well.

If she's not willing or able to do that, and if some extenuating circumstance is not present, she should be willing to compromise.

However, I don't see that as necessarily translating into a "right" to be present in the delivery room. If the guy's clearly not wanted, it doesn't serve any real purpose other than to cause the mother (who is already undergoing a rather traumatic experience to begin with) additional distress.



Again, to be fair, the most common cause of maternal mortality in the pre-modern era and in the pre-industrialized world today was / is actually infection and sepsis, caused by unsanitary living conditions or medical practices (physicians not washing their hands or properly sterilizing needles before suturing, etca), not complications from the delivery itself.

Death from the process of actually pushing the baby out has always been somewhat rare. It may take an ungodly long time in some cases, but women's bodies do tend to figure these things out on their own more often than not.
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Do you think a mother who is stressed by the presence of someone who is not wanted in the room is healthy for her and the baby.

DO you think a rise in blood pressure and heart rate in someone who is already physiologically stressed is healthy.

Do you think a woman who is upset about the presence of an unwanted individual will be able to give her best effort in delivery?

To me, first and foremost the done deal is privacy. HIPPA is pretty darn clear. Secondly, the baby is part of her until that umbilical cord is cut. Damn straight if she tries to restrict access soon after birth, I would fight tooth and nail for his right to see the child...after that it is a custody issue. But while she is in L and D.....hell no. Her health, her privacy, her choice.

And it is not just about him seeing her vagina. Lots of things happen in L and D. Here is a woman at her most vulnerable saying things that she may later regret - that a loving husband may take in stride, but an estranged boyfriend/lover/spouse may use as ammunition. Heck, having ex in the room while in the process of childbirth you are incontinent of stool and such?

If the guy really wants to be a good dad, he needs to start by making the childbirth experience as easy as possible for the mom.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Hatuey said:
I'll be the devil's advocate... and say that if this guy decided he doesn't have to pay child support, a lot of people would be bitching about him being a deadbeat. I say if he's not allowed access to his kid, he has absolutely no responsibility towards the mother or the child.
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He has access to the child. Not the mother. And the baby is part of the mother -physiologically dependent until that cord is cut.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

year2late said:
Do you think a mother who is stressed by the presence of someone who is not wanted in the room is healthy for her and the baby.

DO you think a rise in blood pressure and heart rate in someone who is already physiologically stressed is healthy.

Do you think a woman who is upset about the presence of an unwanted individual will be able to give her best effort in delivery?

To me, first and foremost the done deal is privacy. HIPPA is pretty darn clear. Secondly, the baby is part of her until that umbilical cord is cut. Damn straight if she tries to restrict access soon after birth, I would fight tooth and nail for his right to see the child...after that it is a custody issue. But while she is in L and D.....hell no. Her health, her privacy, her choice.

And it is not just about him seeing her vagina. Lots of things happen in L and D. Here is a woman at her most vulnerable saying things that she may later regret - that a loving husband may take in stride, but an estranged boyfriend/lover/spouse may use as ammunition. Heck, having ex in the room while in the process of childbirth you are incontinent of stool and such?

If the guy really wants to be a good dad, he needs to start by making the childbirth experience as easy as possible for the mom.
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I've already said that I don't disagree with you regarding the father's "right" to witness a delivery.

Forcing yourself into a situation where you're clearly not wanted, when the life and health of two people (mother and baby) are on the line, simply doesn't make any damn sense.

While I would probably prefer to be there for the delivery myself, if worse came to worse, I could simply see the baby afterwards.
 
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Aunt Spiker said:
New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room - ABC News



Thoughts?

So the elements in question:
1) Is being a witness to a birth essential to bond with said child?
2) Is the birthing room a matter of the mother's personal privacy?

Of course, this isn't a broad ruling that applies to everyone (every state, etc). Hospitals have their own rules and guidelines they follow - and so forth. States can rule to the contrary. If hospitals they want to change their guidelines they must make an effort to do so. Most err with the side of the mother (which is what led to this case).

I support the ruling and the concept: Being a witness to a birth is not a right. It is a privilege that should be extended to fathers at the decision of the mother per her comfort.
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I agree with the judge. If the mother doesn't want the bio-dad there, he can't be there. If the mother wants her wife to be there, her wife can be there.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

year2late said:
He has access to the child. Not the mother. And the baby is part of the mother -physiologically dependent until that cord is cut.
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Which means what? She's already denying him access to the child. If she's going to go that route, then he should be free to deny her any support as well. :shrug: You can't have it both ways.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Anyone who says HIPPA instead of HIPAA probably has no idea what HIPAA is.

Stop it. You come off as retarded.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Hatuey said:
Which means what? She's already denying him access to the child. If she's going to go that route, then he should be free to deny her any support as well. :shrug: You can't have it both ways.
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There are always going to be times when parents of a child not living together are denied access to the child. For instance, parents that have a joint custody arrangement cannot just decide to take their children out of town with them. (My mother had to get express written permission from my father to take my siblings on a cruise to the Bahamas with her, eventhough she had full custody of them.) They are each given some time for them to have with the child without the other parent, particularly if the parents are not getting along, but neither is considered harmful to the child or a risk to the child.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gipper said:
Gee, looks familiar...

Guess it IS as rare as mentioned.
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10 to 15% is not rare. 18% of single custodial parents are fathers. That isn't rare. And that is numbers from the census, but I'm not looking it back up for you. You can find it yourself since you are the one that continues to insist that it is rare for mothers to be forced to pay child support.
 
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