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New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

33 pages and again nothign has changed

the womens rights were protected and the mans rights are completely intact

has there even been ONE logical reason given to violate the womans rights?
One reason why the guy should have the ability to force himself into her medical privacy and view her privates against her will?

one?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
What are the chances of that? Is there like a huge number of women dieing because the father was in the room that I'm unaware of?

Gosh, how do they even deal with the stress of the doctor being in the room? Jesus, those women be dieing with all that stress. Oh right, that doesn't happen.
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Because now when the father is in the room, it is because the mother wants him there (or at least did when the labor began). The factor that would cause stress is her not wanting him there and her wishes being denied. Any time someone is in the hospital, if any visitor is causing a patient stress, they are asked to leave. Why would you think that having a man the woman doesn't want in her room while she is basically naked and vulnerable not cause her more, unneeded stress?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

AGENT J said:
33 pages and again nothign has changed

the womens rights were protected and the mans rights are completely intact

has there even been ONE logical reason given to violate the womans rights?
One reason why the guy should have the ability to force himself into her medical privacy and view her privates against her will?

one?
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None that I can think of. :mrgreen: As far as I know, nobody has a "right" to be in the delivery room. It has always been up to mom who she wishes to accompany her during such a personal and difficult time.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

prometeus said:
No I do not object at all to the wider consideration, I object to the moronic implication of abortion into the ruling.
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The thread is about paternal vs. maternal rights regarding childbirth and a woman's right to privacy. And you don't see any connection.

Can't help ya there.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ecofarm said:
The thread is about paternal vs. maternal rights regarding childbirth and a woman's right to privacy. And you don't see any connection.

Can't help ya there.
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Well, yes, sort of. One of the Supreme Court rulings the judge cited in ruling for her privacy was in fact Roe vs. Wade. Otherwise I think the introduction of abortion into a discussion where abortion doesn't take place (and hasn't even been considered) can only muddy and emotionally charge the discussion unnecessarily.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Cardinal said:
Well, yes, sort of. One of the Supreme Court rulings the judge cited in ruling for her privacy was in fact Roe vs. Wade. Otherwise I think the introduction of abortion into a discussion where abortion doesn't take place (and hasn't even been considered) can only muddy and emotionally charge the discussion unnecessarily.
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Well, no one forced anyone else to join the discussion (which can only be deemed topical, in any intellectual honesty) between two members. Further, one member of the discussion had decided not to pursue that angle any longer. So, at this point, the only person to blame for the continued discussion on the subject are the people bitching that it happened. What do you suggest we do? Got midol?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
Fact is that when someone is upset their blood pressure rises, and it also rises from pain. Therefore, since the woman is already in a LOT of pain and under a lot of stress during childbirth, bringing someone into the room would only cause more problems for her. That is pretty obvious.
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I don't think most men truly understand how stressful giving birth is, especially that first one or any with complications. There is so much going on causing a woman stress. And since the average first birth labor is about 8 hours (mine lasted 20), it all just builds up over that time. And the nurses and/or doctors are constantly telling you to try to relax up til that first feeling to push. Even her breathing can affect the baby, which is why there is specific breathing taught for being in labor.

How could any woman possibly relax with someone in the room that she didn't want in there to begin with, that she has had an intimate relationship with, and that she doesn't get along with? I just don't understand how anyone can think that it would be good or even okay to add unnecessary stress that could harm the child.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Would this be a non-issue if the father was able to get some access to the baby at birth? Just wondering.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

roguenuke said:
I don't think most men truly understand how stressful giving birth is, especially that first one or any with complications. There is so much going on causing a woman stress. And since the average first birth labor is about 8 hours (mine lasted 20), it all just builds up over that time. And the nurses and/or doctors are constantly telling you to try to relax up til that first feeling to push. Even her breathing can affect the baby, which is why there is specific breathing taught for being in labor.

How could any woman possibly relax with someone in the room that she didn't want in there to begin with, that she has had an intimate relationship with, and that she doesn't get along with? I just don't understand how anyone can think that it would be good or even okay to add unnecessary stress that could harm the child.
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It seems to me that some guys are out to "prove" something, instead of just caring about the people and circumstances. :roll:
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Dude isn't a husband, a father, and certainly not a "dad". Those titles are earned, not inherent.

Right now, he's a "hook-up", and nothing more.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

American said:
I guess if she wants to go through that **** alone, it's her problem. :shrug: I watched all my kids' births.
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Who says she would automatically be alone? My sister went through the birthing classes with me so that just in case my husband was sent away for military reasons, I'd have someone there. Many women ask female relatives or even friends to be with them during a birth, even if they do have their husband/boyfriend/baby's daddy with them as well. My sister saw both of my sons born and my mother-in-law was with me as well during the second one in all but the "naked" parts (which was fine with me, I'm not shy when it comes to being naked, but that might have been awkward). There are even people who can be hired to help a woman with childbirth, who she works with during the pregnancy to make the birth easier.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

roguenuke said:
Who says she would automatically be alone? My sister went through the birthing classes with me so that just in case my husband was sent away for military reasons, I'd have someone there. Many women ask female relatives or even friends to be with them during a birth, even if they do have their husband/boyfriend/baby's daddy with them as well. My sister saw both of my sons born and my mother-in-law was with me as well during the second one in all but the "naked" parts (which was fine with me, I'm not shy when it comes to being naked, but that might have been awkward). There are even people who can be hired to help a woman with childbirth, who she works with during the pregnancy to make the birth easier.
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What's being ignored is that they broke up long before she went into labor. They don't like each other . Or, at the very least, she's quite comfortable in her knowledge that she doesn't like him. Her decision to not have the father in the room didn't pop out of the blue.
 
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MildSteel said:
The reason is that the law gives the mother the right to extract financial support from the father. That's why. If the law said that the mother is solely responsible, then I would agree, there would be no reason to go further. But since we don't do that, then the father has some right to be there. If the mother has a problem with that, she should be able to demonstrate that to an objective, reasonable 3rd party.
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That is not MOTHER SUPPORT it is CHILD SUPPORT and has absolutely no bearing on her rights to privacy. None. Even if they were married. Get over it, you do not have control over a woman's body.

Paying child support does not come with an engraved invitation to invade a woman's privacy.

And by the way, child support starts AFTER the baby is born. So if you think the child support is some kind of entrance ticket, it doesn't even hold up there. The baby is still connected to the mother until the cord is cut.

And again, a person in labor already is physiologically and emotionally stressed. Having a person in the room that she does not want there is much more stressful. Why would the soon to be father want the mother MORE stressed out in the delivery room? Does he want her blood pressure higher? Does he want her to alter her focus from giving birth to the guy she is estranged from that she doesn't want in the room. If it ain't healthy for mom, it probably ain't healthy for the baby. But somehow the dad feels it is all about him.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Blue_State said:
Would this be a non-issue if the father was able to get some access to the baby at birth? Just wondering.
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If she is not allowing access to the baby soon after birth, now that is not right. Has that been in question?

If she is trying to prevent that - I would wholeheartedly disagree with her.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
There is no surgery taking place. It's called giving birth, which is a natural process of the womans body.
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Idle curiosity, this natural process....do you have any concept of maternal complications that happened before the advent of modern medical care?

Again, if she is already stressed out physiologically and emotionally....why would any father who cared about that soon to be baby WANT to stress her out more?? It amazes me that folks are fighting for this. If he is of comfort to her and is helping focus during birth...HELL YES!!!!!!!By all means.

But I do question anyone that would not give a rats ass that the mother would be more physiologically and emotionally stressed under those circumstances. Seems like he only cares about himself. Not a great way to start being a father.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
Being in the delivery room is certainly not a "right" for ANYONE.
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The mother is a damn,dirty discriminator against the father. Let me help you in your thinking.

The Mother = A Christian Baker
The Father = A Gay Dude wanting a wedding cake.

All across this board liberals have been forthright in declaring that they don't believe in the right of free association.

This woman has no right to reject the forced association the father is trying to begin. She's a discriminator. She's trying to exercise a right to free association that liberals don't believe in or don't value.

Don't enable this type of evil behavior. Don't reward a discriminator. Force her into an association like you would the Christian Baker.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
Being in the delivery room is certainly not a "right" for ANYONE.
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100% correct but the womans rights done matter to some people
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

year2late said:
If she is not allowing access to the baby soon after birth, now that is not right. Has that been in question?

If she is trying to prevent that - I would wholeheartedly disagree with her.
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I think we are on the same page. There isn't much information. I was just throwing that out there as a what if. I understand her right to privacy while she is giving birth. I also understand that he wants to "be there" when the baby is first born. My thought is this would be a good compromise.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
The mother is a damn,dirty discriminator against the father. Let me help you in your thinking.

The Mother = A Christian Baker
The Father = A Gay Dude wanting a wedding cake.

All across this board liberals have been forthright in declaring that they don't believe in the right of free association.

This woman has no right to reject the forced association the father is trying to begin. She's a discriminator. She's trying to exercise a right to free association that liberals don't believe in or don't value.

Don't enable this type of evil behavior. Don't reward a discriminator. Force her into an association like you would the Christian Baker.
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Yes, the woman is a discriminator because she does not want an estranged ex-boyfriend in her delivery room when she is lying naked, vulnerable and in horrible pain trying to give life to her as yet unborn child. HOW DARE SHE!!!!:roll::roll::roll:

Or better yet, how dare anyone even claim such a thing. Last time I checked the woman's vagina was not selling food to anyone. Your analogy is total and utterly stupid and makes no sense whatsoever.

Again, there is no law that states that you have to allow anyone access to your delivery room. There is however a ruling from the highest court in the land that you are not allowed to discriminate against people because of their color, race, gender or sexual preference who want to enjoy the same service at a company that everybody else enjoys.

The woman in this case is not doing anything like that. She is not a business, she is not selling her vagina and she does not discriminate against anyone. She just does not want to have the ex-boyfriend in the delivery room as she gives birth to her child.

This is the whole problem with some conservatives, they drag stuff into discussions that have nothing to do with this subject, that makes no sense and has no bearing on this discussion whatsoever.

Not being allowed into the delivery room has nothing to do with someone getting to know their child, there is no need for him to be there.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
The mother is a damn,dirty discriminator against the father. Let me help you in your thinking.

The Mother = A Christian Baker
The Father = A Gay Dude wanting a wedding cake.

All across this board liberals have been forthright in declaring that they don't believe in the right of free association.

This woman has no right to reject the forced association the father is trying to begin. She's a discriminator. She's trying to exercise a right to free association that liberals don't believe in or don't value.

Don't enable this type of evil behavior. Don't reward a discriminator. Force her into an association like you would the Christian Baker.
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What. Are. You. Talking. About.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

AGENT J said:
100% correct but the womans rights done matter to some people
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Well, like I said earlier, it seems to me more like some of these guys commenting have something to prove.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ChrisL said:
Well, like I said earlier, it seems to me more like some of these guys commenting have something to prove.
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something to prove or simply dont care or understand rights or think the women are lessers
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
The mother is a damn,dirty discriminator against the father. Let me help you in your thinking.

The Mother = A Christian Baker
The Father = A Gay Dude wanting a wedding cake.

All across this board liberals have been forthright in declaring that they don't believe in the right of free association.

This woman has no right to reject the forced association the father is trying to begin. She's a discriminator. She's trying to exercise a right to free association that liberals don't believe in or don't value.

Don't enable this type of evil behavior. Don't reward a discriminator. Force her into an association like you would the Christian Baker.
Click to expand...

Holy crap. This is possibly one of the worst arguments I have encountered on this site. Because not wanting to have anything to do with one estranged ex-boyfriend is completely like wholesale discrimination against blacks or gays or other minority groups. :roll:
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

StillBallin75 said:
Holy crap. This is possibly one of the worst arguments I have encountered on this site. Because not wanting to have anything to do with
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Just helping your thinking out here. A Christian Baker also doesn't want to have anything to do with a homosexual "marriage" but what he wants doesn't matter. The principle in play here is FORCED ASSOCIATION.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

AGENT J said:
something to prove or simply dont care or understand rights or think the women are lessers
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Well, I think that their whining about having to support THEIR child says a boat load about where some of these people are coming from. Being in the room for the delivery has nothing to do with supporting the child and providing it with what it needs and taking responsibility. I don't how or why they are trying to equate responsibility for your child and being present for the delivery of the child. The two are completely unrelated, and there is not one person who has a "right" to be in the delivery room with mom unless the doctors and she agree that a particular person or people can be there. Sometimes, if there are complications, the doctors won't let anyone in the room. Those are the breaks and that's life. These guys are making a BIG deal out of nothing to try to prove some point about responsibility where no point exists.
 
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