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New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Summerwind said:
That requirement would put an unreasonable burden on any woman's stress level. Ever heard of hormones, women are jacked up like crazy while pregnant, no one should expect them to be perfectly rational, and to try to prove something to a judgmental third party???? FTS.
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No it's not unreasonable. If she doesn't want him there, she should be able to demonstrate why his presence would be disruptive. I've been around pregnant women. Even when they are not pregnant hormones can make women respond in funny ways.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
He can simply sue her for financial damage to compensate him for the loss of an irreplaceable experience. Simple.
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Yeah, and that would just end up costing him the legal fees in the end. It's a medical procedure and she gets to say who attends and who doesn't. Once again, they're not even married, so he doesn't even have that argument to make.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Summerwind said:
Actually for anything except birth yes, you do. Sorry. And again, only recently-ish have men been allowed at births at all due to the lack of medical necessity of a man being there. Hospitals are NOT there for you observe other people's conditions, unless or until you are invited and approved by the med staff.
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You were arguing that somehow the man is acting towards the woman by being the room. Prove it. You were also arguing that she has the right to control who is in a room on property she does not own. Again, prove it. Explain to me exactly what grounds there is for women to stop men from seeing their child from being born. Go ahead, I would love to hear it.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
He can simply sue her for financial damage to compensate him for the loss of an irreplaceable experience. Simple.
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Watching someone else have a baby isn't "experiencing" much of anything, it's watching.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
It's ****. It's my child as well as hers. She has no right to stop me from seeing it being born. I'm absolutely sick of mothers being permitted to step on the rights of fathers.
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Yeah it's disgusting how father's rights are trampled on.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ecofarm said:
You don't seem to grasp that some people consider a fetus to be a person. How can you say to them that the "child's" right to life is subordinate to the mother's right to privacy? That just doesn't work with any intellectual honesty.
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It's easy, just tell those people that there is no right to see your kid being born, never has been. Not even in Christ's time.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
He can simply sue her for financial damage to compensate him for the loss of an irreplaceable experience. Simple.
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I agree it is simple, he'd lose and the case wouldnt even make it to court
 
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
It's ****. It's my child as well as hers. She has no right to stop me from seeing it being born. I'm absolutely sick of mothers being permitted to step on the rights of fathers.
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This might be the first time I've said this with you, but I tend to agree. If he will be supporting her and the child, he should be involved in the child's life.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
You were arguing that somehow the man is acting towards the woman by being the room. Prove it. You were also arguing that she has the right to control who is in a room on property she does not own. Again, prove it.
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No I've not. I've simply said...
1. He has no medical reason to be there.
2. A woman has complete control over who sees her vagina, and when.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Summerwind said:
Watching someone else have a baby isn't "experiencing" much of anything, it's watching.
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So seeing something is not an experience? Interesting.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

clownboy said:
Yeah, and that would just end up costing him the legal fees in the end. It's a medical procedure and she gets to say who attends and who doesn't. Once again, they're not even married, so he doesn't even have that argument to make.
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I'm not so sure.

Courts have already determined that a parent can't sign away a child's legal right to support. A mother can't release a father from his obligation to support the child, thereby harming the child.

What we're talking about in this case is a conflict between the mother's right to the privacy of a medical procedure and the child's right to have a tighter emotional bond to its father.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

whysoserious said:
This might be the first time I've said this with you, but I tend to agree. If he will be supporting her and the child, he should be involved in the child's life.
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Life, yes, birth, only with mother's permission.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
I don't need a medical reason to be there and how in the hell am I acting towards her body by being in the room? Get real. Her right to her body doesn't extend towards the entirety of the room. She doesn't own the damn room. I can be where I damn well please, and I have a right to the child, just as she does. I have a right see my child being born, period.
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is that in the constitution?
What right is that?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Summerwind said:
No I've not. I've simply said...
1. He has no medical reason to be there.
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He doesn't need one.

2. A woman has complete control over who sees her vagina, and when.
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Tell that to those women bitching about people seeing their ***** when wearing a skirt, but failing to wear panties. I bet they will all agree, but everyone else that saw their ***** during the day won't agree. :lol:

Still we aren't even talking about that. We are talking about being in the room. I wasn't looking at girlfriend ***** when my daughter was born. I was near the front of the bed and couldn't see it.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ecofarm said:
You don't seem to grasp that some people consider a fetus to be a person. How can you say to them that the "child's" right to life is subordinate to the mother's right to privacy? That just doesn't work with any intellectual honesty.
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I grasp that some people's beliefs are wrong, and therefore shouldn't be forced on anyone other than themselves. Hence each mother's right to privacy supersedes anyone else beliefs or considerations, be they acceptable to you or not.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
I'm not so sure.

Courts have already determined that a parent can't sign away a child's legal right to support. A mother can't release a father from his obligation to support the child, thereby harming the child.

What we're talking about in this case is a conflict between the mother's right to the privacy of a medical procedure and the child's right to have a tighter emotional bond to its father.
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Except that last has nothing to do with the father being in the delivery room during birth. In fact the father being in the room for the birth is a recent thing. Somehow down through history fathers have managed to have tight bonds with their children without being in the room when they were born.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Summerwind said:
Life, yes, birth, only with mother's permission.
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There are two people involved in the medical procedure of birth - the mother and the child. If the mother doesn't grant permission, the child can, and in this case, the father has legal rights, until a court strips him of those rights, to control the medical procedures directed at his child.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

clownboy said:
Except that last has nothing to do with the father being in the delivery room during birth. In fact the father being in the room for the birth is a recent thing. Somehow down through history fathers have managed to have tight bonds with their children without being in the room when they were born.
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The theory is that this forms a tighter emotional bond with the child, not that it is necessary to form a bond.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
There are two people involved in the medical procedure of birth - the mother and the child. If the mother doesn't grant permission, the child can, and in this case, the father has legal rights, until a court strips him of those rights, to control the medical procedures directed at his child.
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this has nothing to do with him being in the room . . . . . . .NOTHING . . . .

there are no legal rights to SEE the birth :shrug:
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

ecofarm said:
You don't seem to grasp that some people consider a fetus to be a person. How can you say to them that the "child's" right to life is subordinate to the mother's right to privacy? That just doesn't work with any intellectual honesty.
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I am curious, how did you arrive at the child's right to life, as if that existed at all, being subordinate to the mother and how is any of that relevant to the father not being allowed to witness the birth?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
He doesn't need one.



Tell that to those women bitching about people seeing their ***** when wearing a skirt, but failing to wear panties. I bet they will all agree, but everyone else that saw their ***** during the day won't agree. :lol:
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Wow, it doesn't take long for you to show deep your ignorant misogyny is.
1. First, according to this ruling, and pretty much every hospital I've ever heard of, the mother decides who will be in the birthing room, end of discussion. This guy tried to get that changed and it didn't work. So yeah, if you don't have permission from the mother, you'd need a medical reason to be there.

2. You are one very disgusting man to compress that story into the sentences typed.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

AGENT J said:
this has nothing to do with him being in the room . . . . . . .NOTHING . . . .

there are no legal rights to SEE the birth :shrug:
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The child is alive at the point of birth. This means that this situation can no longer find parallel in the abortion argument.

Imagine that the child is 3 years old and the mother and father rush the child to the ER with an injury because the mother has glued herself, with crazy glue, to the child. The mother now demands that the father not be present in the ER as the physicians separate them. Why does the mother have greater rights than the child who is crying out for the father's presence?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

whysoserious said:
This might be the first time I've said this with you, but I tend to agree. If he will be supporting her and the child, he should be involved in the child's life.
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Nobody denied the father access to the child. How is seeing a birth involving him in anything?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
There are two people involved in the medical procedure of birth - the mother and the child. If the mother doesn't grant permission, the child can, and in this case, the father has legal rights, until a court strips him of those rights, to control the medical procedures directed at his child.
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Sex is not a medical procedure. Sorry. Father does not have legal rights. End of discussion, really. You can continue to spew falsehoods all you want, but they are clearly far from facts. Bless your heart.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Summerwind said:
Wow, it doesn't take long for you to show deep your ignorant misogyny is.
1. First, according to this ruling, and pretty much every hospital I've ever heard of, the mother decides who will be in the birthing room, end of discussion. This guy tried to get that changed and it didn't work. So yeah, if you don't have permission from the mother, you'd need a medical reason to be there.
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What did I say exactly that is hating on women? lol. She doesn't own the room, and being in the room is not acting on her body. Both are facts. There is no reason that she would have a right to control the room and who is in it. Here is the thing, she is in a room owned by someone else with her ***** out for all to see. Anyone can come into that room and see it. The father saw the ****ing thing already, so really, wtf is your complaint about exactly? That he will see it again? It's kind of weird to **** a dude, decide to have his kid, and then complain he might see your *****.

2. You are one very disgusting man to compress that story into the sentences typed.
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Not following..
 
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