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Thread: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I disagree about the morality issue - hell yes morality has a consideration - how moral is it to further stress out a woman in labor who already is physically and emotionally stressed.

    For whatever her reasons are - he is upsetting to her. They broke up. Why is it so odd that after breaking up she would not want him seeing her at her most physically and emotionally vulnerable?

    There are many issues of "unfairness" towards the father in law ---this will never ever be one of them.

    But it is very easily solved from a legal standpoint. It is blatantly obvious he has not legal right to be here.
    Upsetting her is not a moral issue, that is a medical issue. I don't think the judge took any moral issues into account but rather the right of privacy of the patient during any medical procedure or care.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Upsetting her is not a moral issue, that is a medical issue. I don't think the judge took any moral issues into account but rather the right of privacy of the patient during any medical procedure or care.
    So which is it? Right to privacy, or this absurd belief that "stress" (not that him being there will be any huge addition to what is already happening) will cause complications?

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    So which is it? Right to privacy, or this absurd belief that "stress" (not that him being there will be any huge addition to what is already happening) will cause complications?
    It's both. If it can cause the mother stress, which I'm sure it does, then that is a medical issue and not a moral one. Like you acknowledged, she is already stressed out, why add to that? For what benefit? Is it worth the risks just so the father can observe the child being born? From a strictly MEDICAL perspective, no it is not.

    Right to privacy is of UTMOST important when it comes to your medical care. A decision to allow this to happen against a patient's wishes for ANY reason, could be opening the door to who only knows what. This is why we have patient privacy laws in place.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It's both. If it can cause the mother stress, which I'm sure it does, then that is a medical issue and not a moral one. Like you acknowledged, she is already stressed out, why add to that? For what benefit? Is it worth the risks just so the father can observe the child being born? From a strictly MEDICAL perspective, no it is not.

    Right to privacy is of UTMOST important when it comes to your medical care. A decision to allow this to happen against a patient's wishes for ANY reason, could be opening the door to who only knows what. This is why we have patient privacy laws in place.
    As far as I'm concerned, they're both patients. Just because the dad isn't going into labor per se, doesn't make him any less important to the situation.

    That's why parents-to-be that are so concerned about an upcoming child say things like "we're pregnant". You're just opening the door to men abandoning their responsibilities because they're not considered to be of value.

    Long story short, your attitude contributes to more "sperm donors". It makes me glad I never put a ring on a vitriolic bag of emotions, just because she had a nice rack.

    All that glitters is not gold, it seems.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    So which is it? Right to privacy, or this absurd belief that "stress" (not that him being there will be any huge addition to what is already happening) will cause complications?
    Technically, it'd be both. I also fail to see why it's really all that "absurd" to suggest that stress could be a negative factor here.

    The simple fact of the matter is that stress produces adrenaline, and adrenaline is exactly the opposite of what women need during childbirth. It causes muscles to tense up, rather than relax, and it increases blood pressure.

    When you're trying to push a foreign object the size of a football through a hole the size of a lemon (without ripping yourself wide open or giving yourself an aneurysm in the process), and expecting to take hours doing so, none of those effects are good things to have.

    Are there tons of spazzy strangers around a woman during a hospital delivery anyway, and does this cause stress?

    Absolutely.

    However, that's exactly why a lot of experts have started to suggest that hospitals (as they are set up now, anyway) really might not be a great environment for labor and delivery in the first place.

    For most of human history, women would have given birth at home, with only one or two close family members and maybe a mid-wife near-by. That would have been massively less stressful and frightening for everyone involved.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-19-14 at 12:00 PM.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Upsetting her is not a moral issue, that is a medical issue. I don't think the judge took any moral issues into account but rather the right of privacy of the patient during any medical procedure or care.
    Not caring about the potential physical ramifications to mother and child is a moral issue.

    The legal aspect is a total no-brainer. Of course he cannot be in a hospital room when the patient says no. Duh.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Not caring about the potential physical ramifications to mother and child is a moral issue.

    The legal aspect is a total no-brainer. Of course he cannot be in a hospital room when the patient says no. Duh.
    Right, but I don't think the judge was looking at from a "moral" perspective, rather what is in the best medical interests of mother and child.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Technically, it'd be both. I also fail to see why it's really all that "absurd" to suggest that stress could be a negative factor here.

    The simple fact of the matter is that stress produces adrenaline, and adrenaline is exactly the opposite of what women need during childbirth. It causes muscles to tense up, rather than relax, and it increases blood pressure.

    When you're trying to push a foreign object the size of a football through a hole the size of a lemon (without ripping yourself wide open or giving yourself an aneurysm in the process), and expecting to take hours doing so, none of those effects are good things to have.

    Are there tons of spazzy strangers around a woman during a hospital delivery anyway, and does this cause stress?

    Absolutely.

    However, that's exactly why a lot of experts have started to suggest that hospitals (as they are set up now, anyway) really might not be a great environment for labor and delivery in the first place.

    For most of human history, women would have given birth at home, with only one or two close family members and maybe a mid-wife near-by. That would have been massively less stressful and frightening for everyone involved.
    That's why hospitals that offer birthing rooms are good. They are much less "sterile" looking and more comfortable. Keep in mind though that a LOT of women would much rather have their child in a hospital setting. I know that I would. If anything goes wrong, I want to have everything and everyone needed and available to get the BEST care possible.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, they're both patients. Just because the dad isn't going into labor per se, doesn't make him any less important to the situation.

    That's why parents-to-be that are so concerned about an upcoming child say things like "we're pregnant". You're just opening the door to men abandoning their responsibilities because they're not considered to be of value.

    Long story short, your attitude contributes to more "sperm donors". It makes me glad I never put a ring on a vitriolic bag of emotions, just because she had a nice rack.

    All that glitters is not gold, it seems.
    Well, you are just wrong. The man is not a patient. Nothing is happening to his body, and he does not have to see a doctor for anything. YOU are the one letting emotion get the better of you since everyone on the side of the woman has demonstrated how it could be bad for the health of the mother and child to feel additional stress during such a traumatic event, regardless of the REASONS why. If you look at this from a strictly medical and logical unemotional perspective, it is in the best interest of mother and child to NOT create drama. It really doesn't matter who you blame for the drama. The fact of the matter is, this mom has made it quite clear that she would feel uncomfortable with this man being present.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, you are just wrong. The man is not a patient. Nothing is happening to his body, and he does not have to see a doctor for anything. YOU are the one letting emotion get the better of you since everyone on the side of the woman has demonstrated how it could be bad for the health of the mother and child to feel additional stress during such a traumatic event, regardless of the REASONS why. If you look at this from a strictly medical and logical unemotional perspective, it is in the best interest of mother and child to NOT create drama. It really doesn't matter who you blame for the drama. The fact of the matter is, this mom has made it quite clear that she would feel uncomfortable with this man being present.
    If this child was 8 years old and in the hospital during his dad's visitation and he blocked the mother from seeing the child, you women would lose your damned minds.

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