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New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MildSteel said:
Again, the argument that it's the woman's body would lead us to conclude that the woman should be SOLELY responsible for the effects of getting pregnant. Since we don't practice that because we require the father to share the financial responsibility for bringing up a child, the father has rights.
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Just not the right to demand entrance into the delivery room. It is not just a privacy issue, if the woman feels she would be more stressed by him being there, ADIOS. This is for the physiological well being of mother and child.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
The father is acting in the child's best interest while the mother is acting in her own best interest. Child's interest always trumps parent's interest.
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not only doesnt this apply but in your opinion the sentence by itself is factually not true

are you saying if the child has an interest to light itself on fire the child should be allowed to I men because the child's interest always trumps the parents

oh what about if the child wants to stab you, guess you have to let them

good grief your posts couldnt be more factually wrong
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MildSteel said:
It was amazing. When she said it I was so shocked, I went into this state of suspension of disbelief. I actually couldn't believe she said it for a while.
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I used to be extremely rude when people said some of the crap they will say openly, but these days, I just give them a look of disgust and go about my business.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Robbie Loucks said:
Even though the father will certainly be disappointed, I can side with the judge here.
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Seconded. "Sucks to be him," I suppose, but it's hard to argue with the logic of the ruling.

Don't get me wrong. It'd be a bit of a "dick move" in a loving relationship.

However, under the circumstances described in the OP, it's perfectly reasonable for the mother to demand privacy.
 
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Peter King said:
A woman who lies in a hospital bed, delivering her baby has the expectation of privacy IMHO. If you occupy a phone booth or public restroom stall you have the expectation of privacy so why should a woman in a delivery room not have that?

This man was not invited to participate or be in the delivery room and has no right to encroach on her personal privacy during child birth.
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He is the father of the child. He isn't just some random dude coming in that has no connection to the woman or the baby. It's absurd to argue that he should be locked out.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

year2late said:
Just not the right to demand entrance into the delivery room. It is not just a privacy issue, if the woman feels she would be more stressed by him being there, ADIOS. This is for the physiological well being of mother and child.
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If the mother of my child indicated that she didn't want me there, I would respect that. However, the two of them should work that out. If they can't. The mother should be able to convince a reasonable, objective 3rd party, why the farther should not be there, if he wants to be there and she doesn't want him there. That's what I'm saying.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Summerwind said:
I believe as MaggieD pointed out, according to HIPPA, it is your right to decide all manner of personal contact during a stay at the hospital. So it is law. This man was trying to change the law to include fathers' rights to birthing rooms.
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No I mean I hope they ban all fathers from the birthing room. Watching my wife give birth was horrific lol!
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
You're making an objective judgment regarding a subjective issue. The father sure believes that this is necessary for his relationship with his child.

An analogy would be telling a bride that a church wedding isn't necessary to her happiness. Lots of people get married by a Justice of the Peace. Her lifelong dream of a church wedding is inconsequential TO YOU.

This is about the relationship between the father and his child. It's about what he thinks is important and in the best interests of his child.
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The mother isn't with the child. She is delivering the child. Then, the mother is in a bed while the nurses are with the child.

When fathers are present in an invited means they even are not with the child.

It's delivery time - it's not playtime at the Packston's.

If a guy THINKS he'll have some sort of a bonding moment he's full of it - he can bond later. All of this comes across as an insensitive "I want to do whatever i want to do and I don't care what really needs to be done!" controlling psychoticism.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
The father is acting in the child's best interest while the mother is acting in her own best interest. Child's interest always trumps parent's interest.
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No, the mother is the one who is acting in her and her child's best interest. The father is just an insensitive arrogant selfish jerk who chooses to put his non-existent right over the woman's right to expectancy of privacy.

What is next? The right of a father to have the birth videotaped? The right of the father to make selfies with the baby when she is a few seconds old? Men should be supportive of women during the difficult birthing process and not making it harder for her by lawsuits and imposing himself into a room where he is not wanted by the only person who counts in this instance, the mother who is giving birth.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Peter King said:
No, the mother is the one who is acting in her and her child's best interest. The father is just an insensitive arrogant selfish jerk who chooses to put his non-existent right over the woman's right to expectancy of privacy.

What is next? The right of a father to have the birth videotaped? The right of the father to make selfies with the baby when she is a few seconds old? Men should be supportive of women during the difficult birthing process and not making it harder for her by lawsuits and imposing himself into a room where he is not wanted by the only person who counts in this instance, the mother who is giving birth.
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Yes - what is next?

So: if the mother goes into labor while father is out of state have his rights been denied? Are prisoners then allowed to leave jail and go see their abused wives deliver the baby because their rights are being denied?

See: it just doesn't stick.

If a guy is loving, caring, and actually supportive then the odds are that she'll want him there. If he makes her feel bad, or if he's a total nutjob and has a thing for delivery porn (I've actually come across some people who have breeding, impregnation, and delivery fetishes) then who protects her?

Why is it that women are constantly being demoted as human beings because they're pregnant and having children? Jesus.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
Do you realize your argument would mean that women can't take anything for pain as it can adversely affect the health and well being of the child?
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Are you n the medical field?

If a mother is in immense pain, it will physiologically have a negative effect on the mother and possibly baby.

A mother stroking out from a hypertensive crisis due to excruciating pain is just FITH!

I do not think many of you appreciate the risks of childbirth and labor and delivery.

But on the pain control note, many women try for a natural childbirth. They may even go through classes to manage the pain and facilitate child birth. Of utmost importance is relaxation. Having an unwelcome observer seems like it is the polar opposite of attempting to maintain relaxation.

Seriously guys. Give it up. You want control and you cannot have it.

In the case of the man taking the pregnant woman to court....does anybody here think this was emotionally or physiologically a good thing for the mom (and baby that shares her life)
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
He is the father of the child. He isn't just some random dude coming in that has no connection to the woman or the baby. It's absurd to argue that he should be locked out.
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I am sorry, but at best he is the possible father of that child. Last time I checked he did not have a DNA test done pre-birth that proves that. Until that he is just the partner of that woman and IMHO has about as much rights as any ex-boyfriend of the mother who has a relationship with her close to when the ZEF was conceived.

This jerk (putting a woman through such a thing before having to give birth, this will not be good for her blood pressure and might even hurt the health of the child) should wait until the child is born and not make the birthing process incredibly more difficult for the mother.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Aunt Spiker said:
The mother isn't with the child. She is delivering the child. Then, the mother is in a bed while the nurses are with the child.

When fathers are present in an invited means they even are not with the child.

It's delivery time - it's not playtime at the Packston's.

If a guy THINKS he'll have some sort of a bonding moment he's full of it - he can bond later. All of this comes across as an insensitive "I want to do whatever i want to do and I don't care what really needs to be done!" controlling psychoticism.
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To be fair, it's not entirely unheard of.

My father got to cut the umbilical chord and hold me within a few minutes of my birth.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Peter King said:
I am sorry, but at best he is the possible father of that child. Last time I checked he did not have a DNA test done pre-birth that proves that. Until that he is just the partner of that woman and IMHO has about as much rights as any ex-boyfriend of the mother who has a relationship with her close to when the ZEF was conceived.
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So we are assuming she cheated? :lol: Ok.

This jerk (putting a woman through such a thing before having to give birth, this will not be good for her blood pressure and might even hurt the health of the child) should wait until the child is born and not make the birthing process incredibly more difficult for the mother.
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Yeah, yeah, because the **** she asks for doesn't cause that. Does no one really get the point of my argument earlier? Do people realize that the pain meds women get can very well kill the child and adversely affects it's chances of survival? This whole thing women need it is to the most part ****. All child births are painful and besides the exception to the rule the stress to the child is not above the norm.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gathomas88 said:
To be fair, it's not entirely unheard of.

My father got to cut the umbilical chord and hold me within a few minutes of my birth.
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It's only sweet and loving when the mother and father have a connection. My husband was able to do all sorts of things because we were together. It was not because I was pregnant with his baby.

If guys don't want to lose that possibility then they need to address relationship and other issues when they come up. You cannot demand marital-level rights and privileges when you're not on that level together as a couple. That's the whole value of marriage or of having that close connection: you don't miss out on all those wonderful things in life when you're a couple.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Aunt Spiker said:
It's only sweet and loving when the mother and father have a connection. My husband was able to do all sorts of things because we were together. It was not because I was pregnant with his baby.

If guys don't want to lose that possibility then they need to address relationship and other issues when they come up. You cannot demand marital-level rights and privileges when you're not on that level together as a couple. That's the whole value of marriage or of having that close connection: you don't miss out on all those wonderful things in life when you're a couple.
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Sure. I don't disagree with the ruling at all.

I was simply saying that there is "bonding" potential involved with having the father be present for the birth. It's not much, I'm sure, but it's something.

year2late said:
Are you n the medical field?

If a mother is in immense pain, it will physiologically have a negative effect on the mother and possibly baby.

A mother stroking out from a hypertensive crisis due to excruciating pain is just FITH!

I do not think many of you appreciate the risks of childbirth and labor and delivery.

But on the pain control note, many women try for a natural childbirth. They may even go through classes to manage the pain and facilitate child birth. Of utmost importance is relaxation. Having an unwelcome observer seems like it is the polar opposite of attempting to maintain relaxation.

Seriously guys. Give it up. You want control and you cannot have it.

In the case of the man taking the pregnant woman to court....does anybody here think this was emotionally or physiologically a good thing for the mom (and baby that shares her life)
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Again, only in the interests of being fair here, there is evidence that pain meds can actually make things worse (for both the mother and the child) under certain circumstances.

They can prolong labor, and because the woman can't feel what's going on "down there" as well as she would be able to without the meds, it significantly increases the chances of trauma to the vagina and perineum during the pushing stage, because the woman can't tell when to stop or how to properly regulate her exertion.

I certainly wouldn't blame a woman for taking them, but the argument could be made that it's a bit of a trade off. Pain meds might take the edge off of the immediate pain of labor, but they also increase the mother's risk for complications and a painful recovery that might be longer and more traumatic than it would have been otherwise.

Excellent point on relaxation though. I've actually heard that a small percentage of women can even orgasm during childbirth if they are able to relax enough for it.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
The father is acting in the child's best interest while the mother is acting in her own best interest. Child's interest always trumps parent's interest.
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He is not acting in the child's best interest. He wants to be there for the birth of the child. Kudos! But if his presence makes it more stressful for her at a time that is already stressful and painful ...his presence may kick this up multiple notches. This is clearly not healthy for her and that clearly can translate into fetal distress.

He may really believe it is in the baby's best interest, it is not.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
The exercise of rights carries consequences too. If this was a case of a married couple then I would assume that the woman's position would cause a lot of problems in the marriage - denying her husband the non-replaceable experience of being there when his child is born. That's a pretty big slap in the face.
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Many CONs long for the 'good ol days' in so many other ways I would think this would be one of them. Being a Dad doesn't mean seeing the vajayjay stretch like a giant alien, many Dads miss that for work, military, even a common cold. Seeing your child sliming out like a misshapened turd not looking near done enough to be coming out the fun place doesn't further any father child bonding. No sir I can't say not seeing my daughter get pushed out hurt my bonding with her, nor made me resent the mother, or the circumstances for my not being there.

Sounds more like the typical divorce fight over any and everything gambit to me.

Back when America was 'Merica dads waited outside the delivery room and didn't see the mother and child until both were cleaned up.

If it was good enough for them then by GAWD it should be good enough for us!
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gathomas88 said:
Sure. I don't disagree with the ruling at all.

I was simply saying that there is "bonding" potential involved with having the father be present for the birth. It's not much, I'm sure, but it's something.
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True.
Adding: cutting the cord is a choice. The doctor will usually ask the father ahead of time if he wants to do it and not all doctors permit the practice.


Again, only in the interests of being fair here, there is evidence that pain meds can actually make things worse (for both the mother and the child) under certain circumstances.

They can prolong labor, and because the woman can't feel what's going on "down there" as well as she would be able to without the meds, it significantly increases the chances of trauma to the vagina and perineum during the pushing stage, because the woman can't tell when to stop or how to properly regulate her exertion.

I certainly wouldn't blame a woman for taking them, but the argument could be made that it's a bit of a trade off. Pain meds might take the edge off of the immediate pain of labor, but they also increase the mother's risk for complications and a painful recovery that might be longer and more traumatic than it would have been otherwise.

Excellent point on relaxation though. I've actually heard that a small percentage of women can even orgasm during childbirth if they are able to relax enough for it.
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I've had delivery both 100% numb and 100% feeling: it's not under the woman's control as much as you're imagining. Trust me: the pain in a natural birth drowns out 'sensation' - all you feel is that pain. Some women are lucky enough for their bodies to flood them with natural pain killers (like what's produced when you eat hot peppers) but that's not common place.

Regardless: it's not a matter for the boyfriend or the ex husband to get involved with. It's not like him being there gives him a say over anything, even if they're married.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
The father is acting in the child's best interest while the mother is acting in her own best interest. Child's interest always trumps parent's interest.
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I realize I'm reading your post out of context, so excuse me if I've misinterpreted it, but what is in the best interests of the child about upsetting his mother while it's being born? Stress takes a physical toll on the human body. Stress in childbirth isn't a good thing.

The guy was being a jerk.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MildSteel said:
If the mother of my child indicated that she didn't want me there, I would respect that. However, the two of them should work that out. If they can't. The mother should be able to convince a reasonable, objective 3rd party, why the farther should not be there, if he wants to be there and she doesn't want him there. That's what I'm saying.
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Why is there need to go further? The mother of their unborn child says his presence would be too stressful. I haven't read so much about this, but was the doctor ever asked? Because medically, forcing people who are already in great pain and stress to be further compromised I with added stress is usually not acceptable and can be downright dangerous.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gathomas88 said:
Sure. I don't disagree with the ruling at all.

I was simply saying that there is "bonding" potential involved with having the father be present for the birth. It's not much, I'm sure, but it's something.



Again, only in the interests of being fair here, there is evidence that pain meds can actually make things worse (for both the mother and the child) under certain circumstances.

They can prolong labor, and because the woman can't feel what's going on "down there" as well as she would be able to without the meds, it significantly increases the chances of trauma to the vagina and perineum during the pushing stage, because the woman can't tell when to stop or how to properly regulate her exertion.

I certainly wouldn't blame a woman for taking them, but the argument could be made that it's a bit of a trade off. Pain meds might take the edge off of the immediate pain of labor, but they also increase the mother's risk for complications and a painful recovery that might be longer and more traumatic than it would have been otherwise.

Excellent point on relaxation though. I've actually heard that a small percentage of women can even orgasm during childbirth if they are able to relax enough for it.
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And it is between a physician and his patient to decide risk versus benefit. Period.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Aunt Spiker said:
True.
Adding: cutting the cord is a choice. The doctor will usually ask the father ahead of time if he wants to do it and not all doctors permit the practice.
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Absolutely.

I've had delivery both 100% numb and 100% feeling: it's not under the woman's control as much as you're imagining. Trust me: the pain in a natural birth drowns out 'sensation' - all you feel is that pain. Some women are lucky enough for their bodies to flood them with natural pain killers (like what's produced when you eat hot peppers) but that's not common place.
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I don't doubt it. I was simply pointing out what studies on the subject have concluded.

Women who opt for pain meds do commonly experience longer labors than those who do not, and they also experience tearing (or require an artificial incision) a lot more frequently.

As I said before, it basically appears to be something of a trade off. Even if the woman is not actively aware of it, her body does seem to know what it's doing well enough to minimize injury at least somewhat under natural conditions. Pain meds interfere with this in a lot of cases.

Honestly though, I think relaxation probably plays a bigger role. From what I've seen around the web, quite a few hospital deliveries look like something out of a horror movie.

Water, midwife, and home deliveries are generally a lot more peaceful simply because there aren't swarms of people running around trying to rush the process.

Regardless: it's not a matter for the boyfriend or the ex husband to get involved with. It's not like him being there gives him a say over anything, even if they're married.
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Of course. I agree.
 
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MaggieD said:
I realize I'm reading your post out of context, so excuse me if I've misinterpreted it, but what is in the best interests of the child about upsetting his mother while it's being born? Stress takes a physical toll on the human body. Stress in childbirth isn't a good thing.

The guy was being a jerk.
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This father's lawsuit could be vexatious or legitimate and there was no indication in the reporting or judge's comments which hinted at this being anything other than a legitimate interest on the part of the father.

So, assuming that the father sued because he really wants to witness the birth of his child, this signals, to me at least, that his presence and his witness, is a hugely important part of how he sees himself in a father role.

If this makes him a more engaged father, than that is in the best interests of the child. The child's life is enriched by having a more engaged father than a less engaged father or one who just doesn't give a damn about the child. This is a purposeful pushing away of the father, a purposeful effort to exclude him from the birth of his child, a purposeful effort to deprive him of an experience that is fleeting and can never be substituted. It doesn't matter whether we think that his presence could have such profound effects on his relationship with his child, he apparently thinks it will, hence his willingness to take this issue to a Court of Law. That sure signals to me that he is really invested in the experience.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MaggieD said:
I realize I'm reading your post out of context, so excuse me if I've misinterpreted it, but what is in the best interests of the child about upsetting his mother while it's being born? Stress takes a physical toll on the human body. Stress in childbirth isn't a good thing.

The guy was being a jerk.
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A large percentage of women having strokes during labor/delivery are related to hypertension. Stress would add to this risk!!!

I think since pregnancy is "natural" that folks do not equate it with being a potential medical nightmare.
 
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