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Thread: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    And any rights of the father come into play only after the moment of birth, not on the fetus.
    Any rights of the father come into play when proof or fact has been established - and sometimes that means he's named on the birth certificate or she has declared 'he is the father, yes'. If he's not, then paternity can be challenge via DNA - etc.

    Just saying "I'm the dad" doesn't mean they are.
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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They weren't married to begin with.

    Now, I do kind of understand this, but hopefully it wouldn't come to that during a relationship. I would hope that most couples who are in a good relationship (and being married normally indicates at the very least a relationship where the two can mostly get along, at least in most marriages, although I understand this isn't the case in all). If your marriage has gotten to the point where your wife isn't going to let you in the delivery room against your wishes and you didn't see it coming, most likely there is a serious lack of communication in that relationship/marriage.
    I never said they were married. I was talking about myself.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Yes, I agree and am not debating mother advocacy: it's up to her who she has with her. She is imbuing rights onto another person and they have to be competent to accept that responsibility. When you're pregnant you actually address a lot of this in paperwork that you file ahead of time at your hospital of choice so when you do go into labor you can be admitted quickly and without fuss during labor. If you go into labor early and are admitted elsewhere they'll have that information faxed to them - or fill it out anew under altered 'emergency admittance' type circumstances.

    And so we have an extensive 'patient's rights list' and hospital rules, regulations, an avenue for complaints, and legislation aimed at defining who can do what - and what should be done. The doctor and nurses have to answer to a higher authority - and so on. Their jobs are on the line, etc. It's already complicated but for good reason.
    Of course, but that's not to say that a certain amount of abuse doesn't still happen either way regardless.

    I've heard of women (after explicitly requesting to be left alone, no less) being snipped under epidural without even being asked first, and when challenged on it, doctors basically shrugging it off and saying "I hoped she wouldn't notice."

    As always, the decision is ultimately up to the woman. However, having someone on stand-by to watch out for that kind of nonsense, and speak up when they see it, is advisable, IMO.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    That is ridiculous. Just because she wants privacy during the birth itself? She has already testified that the presumed father would be on the hospital visitor list. You cannot have parental rights to a fetus, after the child is born the laws and regulations with parental rights come into action, including child support and he will have to pay for his failure to protect himself from making a woman pregnant (aka, using a condom).

    Balderdash!!! (look it up)

    They made this child together. Unless she is claiming that the father raped her, the baby belongs to both of them, even at the moment the child is born. So if she doesn't want the father to witness the birth of his child, then she shouldn't expect him to be there for any subsequent part of the child's life--- including monetary support. She can't have it both ways.

    So which is it: should women have the right to decide everything in regards to their child, or should men have equal say so?

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Of course, but that's not to say that a certain amount of abuse doesn't still happen either way regardless.

    I've heard of women (after explicitly requesting to be left alone, no less) being snipped under epidural without even being asked first, and when challenged on it, doctors basically shrugging it off and saying "I hoped she wouldn't notice."

    As always, the decision is ultimately up to the woman. However, having someone on stand-by to watch out for that kind of nonsense, and speak up when they see it, is advisable, IMO.
    Well yes, of course - but it doesn't pertain to the OP which is why I'm not delving into it too deeply, here.
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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Any rights of the father come into play when proof or fact has been established - and sometimes that means he's named on the birth certificate or she has declared 'he is the father, yes'. If he's not, then paternity can be challenge via DNA - etc.

    Just saying "I'm the dad" doesn't mean they are.
    You are right, and this also means that the presumptive/assumed father cannot have any legal standing to challenge this ladies right to privacy in her delivery room. His rights come after the delivery and not before.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    Balderdash!!! (look it up)

    They made this child together. Unless she is claiming that the father raped her, the baby belongs to both of them, even at the moment the child is born. So if she doesn't want the father to witness the birth of his child, then she shouldn't expect him to be there for any subsequent part of the child's life--- including monetary support. She can't have it both ways.

    So which is it: should women have the right to decide everything in regards to their child, or should men have equal say so?
    No, you are proclaiming balderdash yourself:

    On the other hand, plaintiff’s application for parenting time is not ripe for judicial consideration at this time.

    Pursuant to N.J.S.A 9:2-4, the court must conduct a best interest analysis. The statute lists several factors the court must consider:

    the parents' ability to agree, communicate and cooperate in matters relating to the child; the parents' willingness to accept custody and any history of unwillingness to allow parenting time not based on substantiated abuse; the interaction and relationship of the child with its parent s and siblings; the history of domestic violence, if any; the safety of the child and the safety of either parent from physical abuse by the other parent; the preference of the child when of sufficient age and capacity to reason so as to form an intelligent decision; the needs of the child; the stability of the home environment offered; the quality and continuity of the child's education; the fitness of the parents; the geographical proximity of the parents' homes; the extent and quality of time spent with the child prior to or subsequent to the separation; the parents' employment responsibilities; and the age and number of the children.

    [N.J.S.A 9:2-4.]

    The factors listed, by their plain and ordinary meanings, do not contemplate a best interest evaluation before the fetus is born. First, the statute uses the word “child” and not “fetus.” Secondly, the statutory factors cannot be determined at this time as the facts required to make a determination do not exist before a child is born.
    For instance, factor number three requires the court to consider “the interaction and relationship of the child with its parents and siblings.” This is not possible in the pre-birth scenario as the child has had no independent interaction with the parents. Since the vast majority of the factors by their plain meaning cannot be determined pre-birth, the court finds that the claim is not fit for judicial review at this time.
    https://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/tr...v-DeLuccia.pdf

    It says child, not fetus in the statute and all other case laws, written and unwritten all give the woman the right to decide what happens in the delivery room. Until the child is born, the presumed dad has zero rights when it comes to being present at the birth. I think they have almost no rights to begin with before the birth happens anyway.

    It is her legal right to privacy at the moment of birth that has any legal standing and her using that right does not vacate the duties of the presumed father as soon as his parentage has been established to pay child support because at that point he has both legal rights and obligations that are equal to that of the mother (for the most part).
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    It says child, not fetus in the statute and all other case laws, written and unwritten all give the woman the right to decide what happens in the delivery room. Until the child is born, the presumed dad has zero rights when it comes to being present at the birth. I think they have almost no rights to begin with before the birth happens anyway.

    It is her legal right to privacy at the moment of birth that has any legal standing and her using that right does not vacate the duties of the presumed father as soon as his parentage has been established to pay child support because at that point he has both legal rights and obligations that are equal to that of the mother (for the most part).
    When the child is born it is not a fetus anymore. When the child comes out of the vagina is usually the point that it born. If the father has parental rights as soon as the fetus is a child, he should be allowed to be there when HIS CHILD IS BORN.

    I believe the judge got this one wrong. No one person's rights can be interpreted to fully eliminate another person's rights. What the court should have said is that the father has no right to be in the room during the labor, but does have a right to be there at the moment of the actual birth if the circumstances permit. The father should be allowed to bond with his child the same way the mother is allowed to bond with the child.

    Otherwise it would only be fair to at the moment of birth remove the child immediately to another room where the waiting father is and allow him to bond with the baby before the mother does. Would that be fair? Would you be in favor of a decision like that?
    Why not, it is his child too right? That would not be "invading her privacy" to give the father first access to their baby would it?

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    Balderdash!!! (look it up)

    1.)They made this child together.
    2.) Unless she is claiming that the father raped her, the baby belongs to both of them, even at the moment the child is born.
    3.) So if she doesn't want the father to witness the birth of his child
    4.) then she shouldn't expect him to be there for any subsequent part of the child's life--- including monetary support.
    5.) She can't have it both ways.
    6.)So which is it: should women have the right to decide everything in regards to their child
    7.) or should men have equal say so?
    1.) meaningless to her rights
    2.) also meaningless, nobody claimed other wise
    3.) he has not right too, zero
    4.) that would be his choice or the choice of the court if it went that way which is an totally different subject
    5.) both ways? that makes no sense she has her rights just like him and in the op topic her rights are being protected
    6.) aaaah theres your confusion, nobody claimed this nor is it being claimed
    7.) and more of your confusion, this ruling, doesnt take away his say
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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    1.)When the child is born it is not a fetus anymore. When the child comes out of the vagina is usually the point that it born. If the father has parental rights as soon as the fetus is a child, he should be allowed to be there when HIS CHILD IS BORN.

    2.)I believe the judge got this one wrong. No one person's rights can be interpreted to fully eliminate another person's rights.
    3.) hat the court should have said is that the father has no right to be in the room during the labor, but does have a right to be there at the moment of the actual birth if the circumstances permit.
    4.) The father should be allowed to bond with his child the same way the mother is allowed to bond with the child.
    5.) Otherwise it would only be fair to at the moment of birth remove the child immediately to another room where the waiting father is and allow him to bond with the baby before the mother does. Would that be fair? Would you be in favor of a decision like that?
    6.) Why not, it is his child too right?
    7.)That would not be "invading her privacy" to give the father first access to their baby would it?
    1.) you should reread the OP and thread nobody took his parental rights away. he is allowed to be there, just not in the room when the birth is going on if the patient doesnt want him there
    2.) correct and that factually did not happen here
    3.)he has not right to witness the birth, ZERO.
    4.) he is already
    5.) medical standards apply here and privacy rights, the baby wont be moving "immediately" anywhere until theres some checking of him. SOrry you have to use reality here
    6.) yes and not seeing the birth wont change this
    7.) and why would we do this? why not simply do the easier thing of waiting to the room and patient is ready to let others in or once the baby is determined to be medically sound then move it LOL

    this is hilarious.

    can you tell me the right that is violated of the dad by not allowing him to violate the right of the mother?
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