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New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

justabubba said:
you said the baby wanted the father present
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No, I said the following: "But the father, exercising his parental rights, declares that his baby wants him in there." I can see how that might be misleading. I was putting emphasis on the father's declaration, that he is acting in the baby's best interests. I didn't mean to put emphasis on the "baby wants. . "

So please excuse the ambiguity here - I'm not writing legal briefs, but rapid-fire comments.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
Both parents have custody until a judge deems otherwise. No judge stripped this father of his parental rights.
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Nope, not until AFTER the child is born. The mother always has custody before birth because she has physical custody. That's why both parents aren't charged with child endangerment when the mother takes drugs during pregnancy.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
1.)That is your argument.
2.)You don't see a problem with that?
3.)What?! Comparing rape to seeing your child being born is something else. :lamo
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1.) not an argument its the facts
2.) no i see no problem with protecting the womans rights
3.) no in this case because the point and FACT you are missing is NEITHER is a right and thats why we are laughing at you claim that it is
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
People have already told me that. It's not good enough.
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your feelings dont matter to rights
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
So by refusing the man the right to see his child being born he is not made a lesser? Interesting.
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Nope, because, again, no such right exists in law or history (all cultures).
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
Both parents have custody until a judge deems otherwise. No judge stripped this father of his parental rights.
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DING DING DING.... NO JUDGE STRIPPED THIS FATHER OF HIS PARENTAL RIGHTS, and yet he has no legal right to the birthing room, hence observing the birth is not part of his parental rights. Thank you for circle jerking yourself around to the truth, even if it was by accident. :rofl
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
So the man has no right to his child until the woman deems it in existence? How nice.
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If by deems you mean gives birth to, yeah, pretty much legally speaking. However, men have had some limited rights to pre-birth children in the past. Not among those rights - to be there when the woman is birthing. Again, that men are even allowed in during the birth is historically, even in this nation, very recent.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

clownboy said:
If by deems you mean gives birth to, yeah, pretty much legally speaking. However, men have had some limited rights to pre-birth children in the past. Not among those rights - to be there when the woman is birthing. Again, that men are even allowed in during the birth is historically, even in this nation, very recent.
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It seems a big disingenuous to me that historical marriage patterns are irrelevant to Homosexual "marriage" but are hugely pertinent to issues like fathers being present during birth.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

clownboy said:
No, it is not. Many folks give birth and immediately give up the child for others to raise.
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I disagree strongly with you. Raising a child does not start after the child is born.

Babies Listen and Learn While in the Womb

Babies Listen and Learn While in the Womb

By Denise Mann
WebMD Health News
Reviewed by Laura J. Martin, MD

Jan. 3, 2013 -- Sometimes she just tells him about her day. Other times, Ruthie W. rubs her pregnant belly and tells her future son that she can’t wait to meet him (which should be any day now).

And a new study shows that he not only hears his mom, but may understand her and is already learning language from her.

“I talk to him all the time, even when I am in stores shopping for a layette and other things we will need once he is born,” says the New York City-based cosmetic executive. “People probably think I am crazy if they overhear me!”

Far from it.

In fact, she is giving her son a foundation for language development.

The new research suggests that babies began to absorb language when they are inside the womb during the last 10 weeks of pregnancy -- which is earlier than previously held. Newborns can actually tell the difference between their mother’s native tongue and foreign languages just hours after they are born.

“The main message for new moms is that their babies are listening and learning and remembering during the last stages of pregnancy. Their brains do not wait for birth to start absorbing information,” says study author Patricia K. Kuhl, PhD. She is the Bezos Family Foundation endowed chair in early childhood learning and a professor of speech and hearing sciences at the University of Washington in Seattle.
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

AGENT J said:
your feelings dont matter to rights
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But it matters to hers? Tell me again, what right of hers is being violated by him being in the room. If you mention privacy, just know that argument is invalid.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MildSteel said:
I disagree strongly with you. Raising a child does not start after the child is born.

Babies Listen and Learn While in the Womb
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Which as interesting as that may be, has nothing to do with the birthing room and observing, not being able to touch or talk or interfere in anyway, which would be the best that unwanted could have hoped for.

Unless somehow you're now trying to suggest that a man has a right to access to his pregnant partner throughout the pregnancy... good luck with one...
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Summerwind said:
Which as interesting as that may be, has nothing to do with the birthing room and observing, not being able to touch or talk or interfere in anyway, which would be the best that unwanted could have hoped for.

Unless somehow you're now trying to suggest that a man has a right to access to his pregnant partner throughout the pregnancy... good luck with one...
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No one mentioned touching. :lol:
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
But it matters to hers? Tell me again, what right of hers is being violated by him being in the room. If you mention privacy, just know that argument is invalid.
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1. The right to privacy.
2. The right to choose who sees her during a medical procedure.
3. The right to choose who enters a room she has essentially rented at a hospital.

I'm sure there are more.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
But it matters to hers? Tell me again, what right of hers is being violated by him being in the room. If you mention privacy, just know that argument is invalid.
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You're just wanting to pick a fight. You're being difficult for no reason.

If you were birthing my offspring from your anus I'd give you privacy to do so if that's what you wanted. I wouldn't get on my high horse and demand that you permit me watch you suffer and be at your most vulnerable.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Aunt Spiker said:
New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room - ABC News



Thoughts?

So the elements in question:
1) Is being a witness to a birth essential to bond with said child?
2) Is the birthing room a matter of the mother's personal privacy?

Of course, this isn't a broad ruling that applies to everyone (every state, etc). Hospitals have their own rules and guidelines they follow - and so forth. States can rule to the contrary. If hospitals they want to change their guidelines they must make an effort to do so. Most err with the side of the mother (which is what led to this case).

I support the ruling and the concept: Being a witness to a birth is not a right. It is a privilege that should be extended to fathers at the decision of the mother per her comfort.
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I agree, for bonding it is not essential to see a baby come out of the woman's body.

Secondly, it is a medical procedure and except necessary medical staff and people the woman chooses to support/aid her in her difficult job of pushing out this baby, nobody has a right or any business in that delivery room. And an estranged husband is not helpful or conductive for the woman to feel safe and protected during this difficult time.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
It seems a big disingenuous to me that historical marriage patterns are irrelevant to Homosexual "marriage" but are hugely pertinent to issues like fathers being present during birth.
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If you think I've ever done that then you haven't ever read my posts on the subject of homosexual marriage.

Regardless, entirely different rights being argued. The SSM folks hang their arguments on the 14th these days. Whether we agree with them or not, those rights are enumerated. The "right" to be there at your child's birth as a father is entirely fictional. Historically and currently.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Let me give this a try from a medical perspective.

This is a woman that is now no longer with the father of the soon to be baby.

The circumstances of a relationship ending are rarely easy. Now a woman who is undergoing massive physiological stress and pain, now has to be in the presence of an individual that is the source of a lot of emotional distress. Seriously....all the woman would need to say is, "him being in the room is very stressful" and I would hope any MD or L and D nurse would quickly escort him out.

I certainly think she has the right to privacy, but hell, she has a bigger right to being in the safest possible environment for birth. If he REALLY cared about the baby, he would understand that a mother stroked out from high blood pressure is not in the baby's best interest - in the short or long term.

And seriously, a women giving birth needs to concentrate. Stressing out over an unwelcome intruder certainly is not healthy or productive for the progress of labor and delivery.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

MildSteel said:
I disagree strongly with you. Raising a child does not start after the child is born.

Babies Listen and Learn While in the Womb
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That's peachy, fathers still have no rights in this regard before birth. If you are an estranged father no court is going to grant you rights to go sing to your unborn.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
But it matters to hers? Tell me again, what right of hers is being violated by him being in the room. If you mention privacy, just know that argument is invalid.
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No, it's not. There is a whole bunch of law regarding medical privacy.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Aunt Spiker said:
You're just wanting to pick a fight. You're being difficult for no reason.

If you were birthing my offspring from your anus I'd give you privacy to do so if that's what you wanted. I wouldn't get on my high horse and demand that you permit me watch you suffer and be at your most vulnerable.
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For the sake of this argument, let's put some imaginary numbers into the equation.

The father claims that his connection and love for the child will increase by 100% by his being present at the child's birth. The emotional experience of witnessing the birth will be so great that this father will, as a result, be a better father to the child.

It should be clear to everyone that a child is better served by having a more committed father than a less committed father. The father in this case actually took this issue to court in order to be able to witness his child's birth. Clearly this issues means a lot to the father.

I can't see how a mother's selfish interest can, and should, override the interests of the child in having a more devoted, committed father in his life.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Summerwind said:
Which as interesting as that may be, has nothing to do with the birthing room and observing, not being able to touch or talk or interfere in anyway, which would be the best that unwanted could have hoped for.

Unless somehow you're now trying to suggest that a man has a right to access to his pregnant partner throughout the pregnancy... good luck with one...
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What I'm saying is that the logic that comes from the argument that it's the woman's body, can also lead one to put forward the notion that the man SHOULD NOT be required to share in the financial burden of supporting a child. In other words, it's her body, she should bear the SOLE responsibility for it. If she get's pregnant, it's her body, it's her SOLE responsibility. She should bear the sole responsibility and not get pregnant in the first place.

I probably should not say this, but I have a business. A couple of months ago this lady came in who wanted to buy something. She told me she would return after she got her DNA test done. It's totally disgusting that's the way some people think.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

clownboy said:
That's peachy, fathers still have no rights in this regard before birth. If you are an estranged father no court is going to grant you rights to go sing to your unborn.
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And that's the point I have been making. Father's rights are trampled upon.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
1.)But it matters to hers?
2.)Tell me again, what right of hers is being violated by him being in the room.
3.) If you mention privacy, just know that argument is invalid.
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1.) nobody is discussing her feelings she is exercising her rights
2.) she has her right to privacy
3.) facts disagree with you and as usual your opinion and feelings dont matter
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
For the sake of this argument, let's put some imaginary numbers into the equation.

The father claims that his connection and love for the child will increase by 100% by his being present at the child's birth. The emotional experience of witnessing the birth will be so great that this father will, as a result, be a better father to the child.

It should be clear to everyone that a child is better served by having a more committed father than a less committed father. The father in this case actually took this issue to court in order to be able to witness his child's birth. Clearly this issues means a lot to the father.

I can't see how a mother's selfish interest can, and should, override the interests of the child in having a more devoted, committed father in his life.
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Once again, they are not married and they are estranged. He is only going to have partial custody and visitation to begin with at best. His "commitment" isn't an issue. Hers is.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

clownboy said:
Once again, they are not married and they are estranged. He is only going to have partial custody and visitation to begin with at best. His "commitment" isn't an issue. Hers is.
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None of what you wrote erases his degree of commitment. What you describe are external hindrances placed upon the father and child and their bond by circumstance, the mother, and the court.
 
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