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Thread: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

  1. #191
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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    It's only sweet and loving when the mother and father have a connection. My husband was able to do all sorts of things because we were together. It was not because I was pregnant with his baby.

    If guys don't want to lose that possibility then they need to address relationship and other issues when they come up. You cannot demand marital-level rights and privileges when you're not on that level together as a couple. That's the whole value of marriage or of having that close connection: you don't miss out on all those wonderful things in life when you're a couple.
    Sure. I don't disagree with the ruling at all.

    I was simply saying that there is "bonding" potential involved with having the father be present for the birth. It's not much, I'm sure, but it's something.

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Are you n the medical field?

    If a mother is in immense pain, it will physiologically have a negative effect on the mother and possibly baby.

    A mother stroking out from a hypertensive crisis due to excruciating pain is just FITH!

    I do not think many of you appreciate the risks of childbirth and labor and delivery.

    But on the pain control note, many women try for a natural childbirth. They may even go through classes to manage the pain and facilitate child birth. Of utmost importance is relaxation. Having an unwelcome observer seems like it is the polar opposite of attempting to maintain relaxation.

    Seriously guys. Give it up. You want control and you cannot have it.

    In the case of the man taking the pregnant woman to court....does anybody here think this was emotionally or physiologically a good thing for the mom (and baby that shares her life)
    Again, only in the interests of being fair here, there is evidence that pain meds can actually make things worse (for both the mother and the child) under certain circumstances.

    They can prolong labor, and because the woman can't feel what's going on "down there" as well as she would be able to without the meds, it significantly increases the chances of trauma to the vagina and perineum during the pushing stage, because the woman can't tell when to stop or how to properly regulate her exertion.

    I certainly wouldn't blame a woman for taking them, but the argument could be made that it's a bit of a trade off. Pain meds might take the edge off of the immediate pain of labor, but they also increase the mother's risk for complications and a painful recovery that might be longer and more traumatic than it would have been otherwise.

    Excellent point on relaxation though. I've actually heard that a small percentage of women can even orgasm during childbirth if they are able to relax enough for it.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The father is acting in the child's best interest while the mother is acting in her own best interest. Child's interest always trumps parent's interest.
    He is not acting in the child's best interest. He wants to be there for the birth of the child. Kudos! But if his presence makes it more stressful for her at a time that is already stressful and painful ...his presence may kick this up multiple notches. This is clearly not healthy for her and that clearly can translate into fetal distress.

    He may really believe it is in the baby's best interest, it is not.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The exercise of rights carries consequences too. If this was a case of a married couple then I would assume that the woman's position would cause a lot of problems in the marriage - denying her husband the non-replaceable experience of being there when his child is born. That's a pretty big slap in the face.
    Many CONs long for the 'good ol days' in so many other ways I would think this would be one of them. Being a Dad doesn't mean seeing the vajayjay stretch like a giant alien, many Dads miss that for work, military, even a common cold. Seeing your child sliming out like a misshapened turd not looking near done enough to be coming out the fun place doesn't further any father child bonding. No sir I can't say not seeing my daughter get pushed out hurt my bonding with her, nor made me resent the mother, or the circumstances for my not being there.

    Sounds more like the typical divorce fight over any and everything gambit to me.

    Back when America was 'Merica dads waited outside the delivery room and didn't see the mother and child until both were cleaned up.

    If it was good enough for them then by GAWD it should be good enough for us!

  4. #194
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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Sure. I don't disagree with the ruling at all.

    I was simply saying that there is "bonding" potential involved with having the father be present for the birth. It's not much, I'm sure, but it's something.
    True.
    Adding: cutting the cord is a choice. The doctor will usually ask the father ahead of time if he wants to do it and not all doctors permit the practice.


    Again, only in the interests of being fair here, there is evidence that pain meds can actually make things worse (for both the mother and the child) under certain circumstances.

    They can prolong labor, and because the woman can't feel what's going on "down there" as well as she would be able to without the meds, it significantly increases the chances of trauma to the vagina and perineum during the pushing stage, because the woman can't tell when to stop or how to properly regulate her exertion.

    I certainly wouldn't blame a woman for taking them, but the argument could be made that it's a bit of a trade off. Pain meds might take the edge off of the immediate pain of labor, but they also increase the mother's risk for complications and a painful recovery that might be longer and more traumatic than it would have been otherwise.

    Excellent point on relaxation though. I've actually heard that a small percentage of women can even orgasm during childbirth if they are able to relax enough for it.
    I've had delivery both 100% numb and 100% feeling: it's not under the woman's control as much as you're imagining. Trust me: the pain in a natural birth drowns out 'sensation' - all you feel is that pain. Some women are lucky enough for their bodies to flood them with natural pain killers (like what's produced when you eat hot peppers) but that's not common place.

    Regardless: it's not a matter for the boyfriend or the ex husband to get involved with. It's not like him being there gives him a say over anything, even if they're married.
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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The father is acting in the child's best interest while the mother is acting in her own best interest. Child's interest always trumps parent's interest.
    I realize I'm reading your post out of context, so excuse me if I've misinterpreted it, but what is in the best interests of the child about upsetting his mother while it's being born? Stress takes a physical toll on the human body. Stress in childbirth isn't a good thing.

    The guy was being a jerk.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    If the mother of my child indicated that she didn't want me there, I would respect that. However, the two of them should work that out. If they can't. The mother should be able to convince a reasonable, objective 3rd party, why the farther should not be there, if he wants to be there and she doesn't want him there. That's what I'm saying.
    Why is there need to go further? The mother of their unborn child says his presence would be too stressful. I haven't read so much about this, but was the doctor ever asked? Because medically, forcing people who are already in great pain and stress to be further compromised I with added stress is usually not acceptable and can be downright dangerous.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Sure. I don't disagree with the ruling at all.

    I was simply saying that there is "bonding" potential involved with having the father be present for the birth. It's not much, I'm sure, but it's something.



    Again, only in the interests of being fair here, there is evidence that pain meds can actually make things worse (for both the mother and the child) under certain circumstances.

    They can prolong labor, and because the woman can't feel what's going on "down there" as well as she would be able to without the meds, it significantly increases the chances of trauma to the vagina and perineum during the pushing stage, because the woman can't tell when to stop or how to properly regulate her exertion.

    I certainly wouldn't blame a woman for taking them, but the argument could be made that it's a bit of a trade off. Pain meds might take the edge off of the immediate pain of labor, but they also increase the mother's risk for complications and a painful recovery that might be longer and more traumatic than it would have been otherwise.

    Excellent point on relaxation though. I've actually heard that a small percentage of women can even orgasm during childbirth if they are able to relax enough for it.
    And it is between a physician and his patient to decide risk versus benefit. Period.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    True.
    Adding: cutting the cord is a choice. The doctor will usually ask the father ahead of time if he wants to do it and not all doctors permit the practice.
    Absolutely.

    I've had delivery both 100% numb and 100% feeling: it's not under the woman's control as much as you're imagining. Trust me: the pain in a natural birth drowns out 'sensation' - all you feel is that pain. Some women are lucky enough for their bodies to flood them with natural pain killers (like what's produced when you eat hot peppers) but that's not common place.
    I don't doubt it. I was simply pointing out what studies on the subject have concluded.

    Women who opt for pain meds do commonly experience longer labors than those who do not, and they also experience tearing (or require an artificial incision) a lot more frequently.

    As I said before, it basically appears to be something of a trade off. Even if the woman is not actively aware of it, her body does seem to know what it's doing well enough to minimize injury at least somewhat under natural conditions. Pain meds interfere with this in a lot of cases.

    Honestly though, I think relaxation probably plays a bigger role. From what I've seen around the web, quite a few hospital deliveries look like something out of a horror movie.

    Water, midwife, and home deliveries are generally a lot more peaceful simply because there aren't swarms of people running around trying to rush the process.

    Regardless: it's not a matter for the boyfriend or the ex husband to get involved with. It's not like him being there gives him a say over anything, even if they're married.
    Of course. I agree.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-13-14 at 11:24 PM.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I realize I'm reading your post out of context, so excuse me if I've misinterpreted it, but what is in the best interests of the child about upsetting his mother while it's being born? Stress takes a physical toll on the human body. Stress in childbirth isn't a good thing.

    The guy was being a jerk.
    This father's lawsuit could be vexatious or legitimate and there was no indication in the reporting or judge's comments which hinted at this being anything other than a legitimate interest on the part of the father.

    So, assuming that the father sued because he really wants to witness the birth of his child, this signals, to me at least, that his presence and his witness, is a hugely important part of how he sees himself in a father role.

    If this makes him a more engaged father, than that is in the best interests of the child. The child's life is enriched by having a more engaged father than a less engaged father or one who just doesn't give a damn about the child. This is a purposeful pushing away of the father, a purposeful effort to exclude him from the birth of his child, a purposeful effort to deprive him of an experience that is fleeting and can never be substituted. It doesn't matter whether we think that his presence could have such profound effects on his relationship with his child, he apparently thinks it will, hence his willingness to take this issue to a Court of Law. That sure signals to me that he is really invested in the experience.

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    Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I realize I'm reading your post out of context, so excuse me if I've misinterpreted it, but what is in the best interests of the child about upsetting his mother while it's being born? Stress takes a physical toll on the human body. Stress in childbirth isn't a good thing.

    The guy was being a jerk.
    A large percentage of women having strokes during labor/delivery are related to hypertension. Stress would add to this risk!!!

    I think since pregnancy is "natural" that folks do not equate it with being a potential medical nightmare.

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