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Two dead after drunk plows through SXSW crowd

Well, we disagree. I think a bar that serves a person until they're blind drunk bears some responsibility. We have laws against it. Why do people object to enforcing them?

Prove it. Prove someone got blitzed at the bar, and not after. Maybe he had a bottle in his glove compartment. Maybe he hit up the liquor store after the bar. Etc.
 
Furthermore, what's the difference between someone SERVING me drinks at a bar, vs someone selling me an entire bottle of liquor and letting me serve myself?
 
Actually, what I've been saying is, these kinds of laws don't target the problem, they target a symptom of the problem, and therefore they are probably going to be less effective than improved education would be. Too many people end up in AA/NA before they learn things that I think everyone should learn in high school.

Education? About drinking? Like drugs, education about alcohol and substance use and abuse has been included in public school curricula for decades.
 
It's time for us to start using The Dram Act. Find out where that idiot got his booze and hold deep pockets accountable for tragedies like this. Nothing is going to change until we start going after the bars and restaurants who over-serve and then let someone walk out of their establishments with car keys.
I think that TX enacted dram shop laws in the eighties.
 
The world is a dangerous place. Lots of things can kill us and one day one of them will. Until then, I'd rather live free than in a world where the government micromanages every aspect of our lives for our own good. Some twit did something really stupid, careless and criminal. Punish him. Let's not try to change the whole freakin' world in a ridiculous attempt to make sure no other twits can do something stupid that will cause some people to die. No matter how twit-proof you try to make the world, the world will just come back with more effective twits.
You are just a horrible person, you know the government and their people know how to live your life better than you do. For you. Now get in line, shape up or ship out.
 
Well, we disagree. I think a bar that serves a person until they're blind drunk bears some responsibility. We have laws against it. Why do people object to enforcing them?
Lots of functioning alcoholics out there. My old boss was one, drank from the time he got off work till he passed out. Every night. But you would never know it.
 
Prove it. Prove someone got blitzed at the bar, and not after. Maybe he had a bottle in his glove compartment. Maybe he hit up the liquor store after the bar. Etc.

I have no idea how easy or hard it would be to prove. Probably depends on how much someone(s) want to bring criminal or civil charges as to how much an investigation they're willing to do.

Tom, as a taxi driver, has seen more than his share of drunks staggering out of bars at closing time and climbing into their cars. It's my understanding that most states' Dram Act laws require only that the bartenders should have known. In Elmhurst, next town over, the cops actually hang out at some of these bars at closing time to prevent fights and subliminally encourage people to use the taxis that line the front curb.
 
Education? About drinking? Like drugs, education about alcohol and substance use and abuse has been included in public school curricula for decades.
I don't mean lies, exaggerations, and blind demonization like DARE.
 
Whether a bar owner can be held legally liable for a drunk causing an accident, I'm not sure. Civil liability is another matter, however. The injured party is going to look for the deepest pockets to sue, and that is not likely to be the drunk. Liquor establishments have insurance for that very eventuality.
 
??? Me either.
I guess it's anecdotal, but DARE was the only real attempt to educate kids about drug abuse when I was in school. And it failed miserably because they lost all credibility with their lies, half-truths, and manipulations. You said this stuff has been in school curriculum for decades, and maybe they did a good job where you went to school, but that's certainly not my experience.
 
Effectiveness of DARE program:

Objectives. We provide an updated meta-analysis on the effectiveness of Project D.A.R.E. in preventing alcohol, tobacco, and illicit drug use among school-aged youths.

Methods. We used meta-analytic techniques to create an overall effect size for D.A.R.E. outcome evaluations reported in scientific journals.

Results. The overall weighted effect size for the included D.A.R.E. studies was extremely small (correlation coefficient = 0.011; Cohen d = 0.023; 95% confidence inProject D.A.R.E. Outcome Effectiveness Revisitedterval = −0.04, 0.08) and nonsignificant (z = 0.73, NS).

Conclusions. Our study supports previous findings indicating that D.A.R.E. is ineffective.
 
Real-life documentaries that follow actual addicts through their attempts and failures to get clean. Addicts who don't even get high from it anymore, but they have to keep using so they don't constantly feel like they have the flu. Showing stuff like this in the classroom would do a hell of a lot more good than some dude cooking an egg or an angry woman smashing up her kitchen with a frying pan. Prove to the kids that we're not just being prude old out-of-touch adults about this. That they really don't want to even start down that road, much less get that far.
 
Real-life documentaries that follow actual addicts through their attempts and failures to get clean. Addicts who don't even get high from it anymore, but they have to keep using so they don't constantly feel like they have the flu. Showing stuff like this in the classroom would do a hell of a lot more good than some dude cooking an egg or an angry woman smashing up her kitchen with a frying pan. Prove to the kids that we're not just being prude old out-of-touch adults about this. That they really don't want to even start down that road, much less get that far.

You'd think that would convince at least some of them to leave the drugs alone.

But, some of them at least see that sort of thing first hand at home, and still get hooked.
 
Come on....they 'educate' them all about the dangers of smoking cigarettes and look at how many people still take up smoking?

Maybe they see the blatant hypocrisy in alcohol & cigs being legal but keeping pot illegal and just dismiss it all as BS. It's hard to maintain credibility after that.
 
You'd think that would convince at least some of them to leave the drugs alone.

But, some of them at least see that sort of thing first hand at home, and still get hooked.
Yes, that's true. It's not an overnight cure.

Come on....they 'educate' them all about the dangers of smoking cigarettes and look at how many people still take up smoking?
Actually cigarette smoking among young people is at an all time low.

This article says the main reason is because smoking is culturally "out". It says that was accomplished by public smoking bans, higher taxes, and fewer smokers depicted on TV/movies. I have to admit it also says school education programs have been ineffective, which makes me think I could be wrong about pushing education as the better solution. I think at least it should be something that encourages people to not want to get blitzed enough to possibly act like a menace. If doing that is "uncool" among their peers, then they're less likely to do it.

Maybe they see the blatant hypocrisy in alcohol & cigs being legal but keeping pot illegal and just dismiss it all as BS. It's hard to maintain credibility after that.
How true that is.
 
It's time for us to start using The Dram Act. Find out where that idiot got his booze and hold deep pockets accountable for tragedies like this. Nothing is going to change until we start going after the bars and restaurants who over-serve and then let someone walk out of their establishments with car keys.

What a tragedy.

Who said anybody over-served? If he had one drink and was impaired he wold still have been arrested.
 
I agree with the responsible party is the guy who drank too much. But we have The Dram Act for a reason. And every Friday/Saturday night at bars all over this country, sloppy drunks are getting served.

Why don't you blame the law for being extremely hard on drunks? That is why he ran to aviod those punishments.

Why not blame the cop for chasing him? Why not blame the car manufacturer for making the weapon?
 
Why don't you blame the law for being extremely hard on drunks? That is why he ran to aviod those punishments.

Why not blame the cop for chasing him? Why not blame the car manufacturer for making the weapon?

The fact that he was driving a stolen car might have had a little to do with it. Dram Act laws are on the books. Don't freakin' blame me.
 
His blood alcohol was .11.

But you are assuming he drank all that inone place. Also .11 is not drop down drunk. .10 used to be the limit.
 
But you are assuming he drank all that inone place. Also .11 is not drop down drunk. .10 used to be the limit.

I'm not assuming anything. We have laws on the books that can be used to hold bartenders and club owners responsible for over-serving. If we're serious about stopping drunk drivers, we should begin enforcing them. This guy was also driving a stolen car, so he had more reason to run than just his BAC.
 
The fact that he was driving a stolen car might have had a little to do with it. Dram Act laws are on the books. Don't freakin' blame me.

A Little to do with it? He was running from the cops and you want to blame a bar tender.

I think the owner of the car that let him steal it should be responsable for the 2 deaths and many injuries. After all if the car wasn't reported stolen, maybe the cop would not have been chasing him.
 
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