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U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours[W:92]

Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

I think it flew into the fifth dimension to a parallel universe where the Earth is un populated by human beings. The plane landed safely, but will never take off again. The stranded passengers will now start a new civilization.
As long as they can stay away from the Langoliers.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Unreal.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Unless the diversion was preprogrammed, right?

True, someone could have input a new course in at any time, and once set to follow the course the autopilot would do that. But that's not something a pilot would miss.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Ridiculous to even contemplate. A new course to where for goodness sakes? To say that a pilot would not miss something like that, is to travel to New York in mid winter and ponder how a native New Yorker would not fail to see snow on the ground. Pointless. What was "someone" going to do, sneak their hand toward the center console and re-program the FMS/FMC? Utterly pointless discussion.

The point of entry into this disappearance comes well before the FMS/FMC and more than likely has its source rooted in the SATCOM Datalink to ACARS, used by a source expressly for the purpose manipulating Flight 307. Nobody slipped their hand onto the flight deck mid-flight without the crew noticing it. Geepers.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

True, someone could have input a new course in at any time, and once set to follow the course the autopilot would do that. But that's not something a pilot would miss.
One POSSIBLE scenario would be that it lost transponder, the pilot/pilots changed course, set autopilot, and then everyone lost consciousness for some reason.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

One POSSIBLE scenario would be that it lost transponder, the pilot/pilots changed course, set autopilot, and then everyone lost consciousness for some reason.

A mass loss of consciousness would be caused by depressurization, but at altitude this happens rapidly. If they had some problem that caused them to lose transponders and then depressurize, it was a really bad freaking day.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

The point of entry into this disappearance comes well before the FMS/FMC and more than likely has its source rooted in the SATCOM Datalink to ACARS, used by a source expressly for the purpose manipulating Flight 307. Nobody slipped their hand onto the flight deck mid-flight without the crew noticing it. Geepers.
I love how you indicate something that has never once happened in history is "more than likely," particularly when it would involve major reprogramming of several systems and then finding a way to remotely incapacitate the pilots. All done before the flight departed.

In what universe is that situation "more than likely?"

edit: and when I say "reprogramming," I don't mean punching buttons on the console. I mean literally programming new software with completely new functions that no airliner has ever been built to handle.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

A mass loss of consciousness would be caused by depressurization, but at altitude this happens rapidly. If they had some problem that caused them to lose transponders and then depressurize, it was a really bad freaking day.
Can an autopilot be pre-programmed to change course? That's possible, I think.

They could have programmed in the course change and only afterwards lost transponder and/or consciousness.

Damn speculation, I want more FACTS.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

True, someone could have input a new course in at any time, and once set to follow the course the autopilot would do that. But that's not something a pilot would miss.

Maybe they did it.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Can an autopilot be pre-programmed to change course? That's possible, I think.

They could have programmed in the course change and only afterwards lost transponder and/or consciousness.

Damn speculation, I want more FACTS.

It can, but, again, the pilots would be aware of the course change. You have to punch it into the FMS, so it's not like you can sneak in during the flight and do that. So you'd have to do it before they even get into the cockpit, and that's not something they're going to miss before takeoff. It would be like getting into your car and not noticing that somebody set the GPS to take you to California.

The people in the cockpit knew where the plane was going to go. Whether that was the pilots or some hijacker, we can't say at this point.

Maybe they did it.

You'd have to be on board to program the new course, and I'm not sure why you'd pre-program a course knowing you'd be unconscious. Why not, you know, not go unconscious? And if you're going to remain conscious, why bother with the pre-programming?

It's something a person can do, but I don't really see a scenario in which it makes sense.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

I love how you indicate something that has never once happened in history is "more than likely," particularly when it would involve major reprogramming of several systems and then finding a way to remotely incapacitate the pilots. All done before the flight departed.

In what universe is that situation "more than likely?"

edit: and when I say "reprogramming," I don't mean punching buttons on the console. I mean literally programming new software with completely new functions that no airliner has ever been built to handle.

One more time. The code you are sheepishly referring to is called Ada. Ada is used primarily in avionics programming, especially where real-time fault tolerant and redundant embedded systems run and where high availability and failover is required. Airlines have their LRUs recoded all the time. Your assumption that such re-coding never takes place or is too difficult to accomplish is just hogwash - this is what they are designed to do, for crying out loud. We are talking about custom coding and modifications - that's it.

Loading a new LRU module:


Lastly, this notion that aircraft cannot be remotely controlled is likewise, hogwash:

NASA


 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

It can, but, again, the pilots would be aware of the course change. You have to punch it into the FMS, so it's not like you can sneak in during the flight and do that.

Not if the AP receives its instructions from the FMS/FMC which receives its instructions from a modified link to the SATCOM ACARS MU. That's the point you seem to want to ignore, even when NASA and Honeywell tells you its possible (if you had bothered to read the links provide).

So you'd have to do it before they even get into the cockpit, and that's not something they're going to miss before takeoff. It would be like getting into your car and not noticing that somebody set the GPS to take you to California.

That's nuts and complete misunderstanding of the potential in the SATCOM ACARS Avionics System. Why do you think they call it ACARS Avionics? Why would those two terms be linked together by SAS, if that's not how their aircraft are being operated?

Having just a little knowledge can be dangerous, especially when you refuse to accept reality. Reality dictates that the aircraft's FMS can be controlled through the ACARS MU. That's a fact. It may be a fact that you are not comfortable with, but a fact nonetheless. NASA, Honeywell and our Military already know this as a fact. You should get caught up on the technology before claiming something is not possible.


The people in the cockpit knew where the plane was going to go. Whether that was the pilots or some hijacker, we can't say at this point.

They would have known right up until the point where they could do nothing to prevent it. ACARS can integrate with more than the Avionics suite as I've mentioned earlier. So, if the aircraft had been set-up to release a toxic agent into the main cabin and flight deck through the recirculation system, that could have also been triggered through SATCOM ACARS.


It's something a person can do, but I don't really see a scenario in which it makes sense.

Of course, you don't because you cannot fathom a pre-staged Remote Controlled Skyjacking of Flight 370. You make it a lot more difficult than it has to be. It really does not have to be as hard as you are trying to make it. First the gas, then the FMS - in that order.

Recall, Betty Ong, on-board Flight 11:



Within the first 11 seconds she says that "we can't breathe." Before that she says that she does not know if they are being "maced."

Do you understand what this means? That's gas my dear friend. The question is, what kind of gas was it and WHERE did it come from. No skyjacker on 911 was ever accused of getting both box cutters and mace on-board commercial aircraft in the United States of America. Getting everybody involved on-board with box cutters was a mathematical improbability at best. Getting everybody involved on-board with box cutters AND some of them with mace, is pure Fantasy Island nonsense at best.

Now, you tell me what Betty, is talking about and why are people having difficulty breathing. This aircraft had not suffered any rapid decompression from a high altitude. There are absolutely zero reasons for these people to not be able to breathe, unless a toxic agent was released inside that cabin and/or cockpit.

And, it all makes perfectly good sense, if you are planning to remotely take-over the flight controls of the aircraft. Why? First, you knock out the flight crew on the flight deck with gas. Their cockpit door is CLOSED and SEALED, which means that the gas would slowly leak into the main cabin secondarily. This is why Betty, was talking about the passengers closer to the first class and business class sections - as being those having difficulty breathing. Those sections are physically closer than coach class, which is where Betty, initiated her phone call - she was near the rear of the aircraft.

That gas slowly made its way into the cabin. Who knows what amount leaked in - maybe not enough to knock out people sitting in Business and First Class, but certain enough to cause them to have difficulty breathing as Betty testifies on record.

Why did the media never pick up this anomaly? It is things just like this that causes hairs on the back of my neck to stand up and take notice. Not being able to breathe has NOTHING to do with a skyjacking. Why? Because the skyjackers WOULD NOT expose themselves to such gases, knowing full well that they had to fly the aircraft. It would make no sense at all for them to gas themselves.

Betty, gave us all some very valuable information, but how many people have just completely ignored what she said over the years.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

One more time. The code you are sheepishly referring to is called Ada. Ada is used primarily in avionics programming, especially where real-time fault tolerant and redundant embedded systems run and where high availability and failover is required. Airlines have their LRUs recoded all the time. Your assumption that such re-coding never takes place or is too difficult to accomplish is just hogwash - this is what they are designed to do, for crying out loud. We are talking about custom coding and modifications - that's it.


Okay, now you are exposing yourself. ADA is a programming language, a 3rd generation language that was adopted by the airforce in the early 70s. The language itself does not speak to the complexity of programming specific actions, or activities. The complexity exists, regardless of the language used. There is nothing special about ADA, except that if you want to do something different or fix something with a system written in ADA, you need a programmer with ADA expertise. Similarly in old business systems you need someone with COBOL expertise.

This is very complex stuff. We are talking about
custom coding and modifications to custom coding for crying out loud
. You want simple, use off the shelf. You want complex, use custom coding that was coded, and modified, by multiple programmers, over a period of years.

Sorry to deflate your balloon, but your ignorance is glaring. What makes it worse is that you try to tout your ignorance like it is knowledge. You should be embarrassed
 
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Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Focus on what Betty, told you and then ask yourself, what on earth does not being able to breathe have to do with being skyjacked by terrorists? Those two things don't add up. Was Betty lying? Was Betty mistaken? Was Betty confused? Are you going to say that Betty was under stress and made it all up out of whole cloth? Why make up something about people not being able to breathe?

This tells you that something was introduced into that cabin and the location of the most intense breathing problems came from near the flight deck. If you want remote control of the aircraft, then you are going to have to take out the flight crew somehow and the best way to do that is to release an agent that takes affect before they can put on their masks, or make sure that what's delivered through their masks is precisely what you want them to breath.

Insidious? Yes - but how insidious is it to fly a perfectly fine aircraft into a building with people it, merely to go to war in a country where you gain control over oil assets.

Betty, says they could not breathe. I believe her. Do you?
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Okay, now you are exposing yourself.

You seem to think that nonsequitur replies equates to actually debating on the merits. Nowhere in your post did you claim that Ada is not the language used to build the vast majority of the Boeing 777 programmable LRUs. I told you people that. You did not tell me that.

The Boeing 777 Flies on 99.9% Ada.

Now, I will take your apology anytime you desire to give it. You happen to be dialoguing with probably the only member of this board with actual flight experience in commercial aircraft like those being discussed here this evening. I do not post with declarative specificity on subjects I have no hands-on experience with. When I told you that Ada is the programming language used in the avionics of commercial aircraft like the Boeing 777, I meant exactly what I said.

Now, what exactly are you exposing? The fact that I actually know what I'm writing about, or the fact that you had no idea who you were dialoguing with?
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Are you guys clear on what Ada is used for in aviation at this point? Or, do you need more clarification?
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

So, I guess you were wrong about Ada and its relationship to the Boeing 777. I'd say you were about 99.9% dead wrong. That's why you ran away like a bullet train, after finding out how the triple-seven was actually designed. Not to worry - I won't hold your poker chip against you.

Got any other feet you wish to insert in mouth at this time about how the Boeing 777 was actually designed? Or, shall we move on to how ACARS Avionics systems work and why that is the possible gateway to understanding not just Flight 370, but quite possibly Flight's 175 and 11?

Flight's 77 and 93 never happened, as far as I am concerned. They never flew the courses stated by the official story tellers. Those aircraft are just as lost as Flight 307. And, when we find out what happened to 307, we will probably find out what happened to 77 and 93. I am not one to believe that 175 and 11, were not real. I believe that were real and I believe that they were Remote CFIT.

It is long overdue for people to wake up on this issue.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

You seem to think that nonsequitur replies equates to actually debating on the merits. Nowhere in your post did you claim that Ada is not the language used to build the vast majority of the Boeing 777 programmable LRUs. I told you people that. You did not tell me that.

The Boeing 777 Flies on 99.9% Ada.

Now, I will take your apology anytime you desire to give it. You happen to be dialoguing with probably the only member of this board with actual flight experience in commercial aircraft like those being discussed here this evening. I do not post with declarative specificity on subjects I have no hands-on experience with. When I told you that Ada is the programming language used in the avionics of commercial aircraft like the Boeing 777, I meant exactly what I said.

Now, what exactly are you exposing? The fact that I actually know what I'm writing about, or the fact that you had no idea who you were dialoguing with?

I can't tell, are you trying to be funny, or is it accidental? I agreed with the fact that ADA is the programming language.

You said
Your assumption that such re-coding never takes place or is too difficult to accomplish is just hogwash - this is what they are designed to do, for crying out loud. We are talking about custom coding and modifications - that's it.

This is where you got in over your head. This is what I was addressing.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

I can't tell, are you trying to be funny, or is it accidental? I agreed with the fact that ADA is the programming language.

You said

This is where you got in over your head. This is what I was addressing.


Can you explain to anyone in this thread exactly what you mean when you say I got in "over my head." I am the one who told you that Ada was used in aviation. You did not tell me that. You were not informing me, I was informing you and those in this thread who may not have known. You then tell me that I'm exposing myself because I informed you that Ada was used in such environments. What is it about facts that you don't like?

You cannot refute the link because my statement that Ada was used in the avionics of the Boeing 777 turned out to be true upon your reading the link. So, when you found out that your Poker Card had been played and that I do not play Poker, you come back with yet another nonsequitur claiming that my informing you that Ada is all over the Boeing 777, somehow puts me in over my head.

Nonsense. If you can't admit that your card got pulled, then you will never be able to admit that remote control of a Boeing 777 is possible through the SATCOM ACARS Avionics system, no matter how much evidence I put before you.

Ada is the Boeing 777 and the Boeing 777 is Ada. Anyone knowing anything about commercial aviation already knew that. The fact that you attempted to catch me on something that is so obvious, is proof positive that you too are feigning expertise.

Why not just learn something here, instead of fighting an education? I'm telling you, as someone having flown aircraft just like these, that it is absolutely possible to gain command of the flight control system via a remote link and that doing so is not science fiction. I'm not saying that is precisely what happened, but I am saying that the Media has not informed you about the distinct possibility that it could have happened. They would rather you not know - because it immediately draws the question: Well, if that can be done with flight 370, what about flight's 11 and 175? Since the media knows that it dropped the ball on those questions a very long time ago, it cannot afford to have people asking such questions, as it would call into question their own professional credibility.

This is WHY they have been all over the map with glorified excuses for what is happening with flight 370 right now. No one in the media is saying anything about the ability to control the damn thing remotely.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Can you explain to anyone in this thread exactly what you mean when you say I got in "over my head." I am the one who told you that Ada was used in aviation. You did not tell me that. You were not informing me, I was informing you and those in this thread who may not have known. You then tell me that I'm exposing myself because I informed you that Ada was used in such environments. What is it about facts that you don't like?

You cannot refute the link because my statement that Ada was used in the avionics of the Boeing 777 turned out to be true upon your reading the link. So, when you found out that your Poker Card had been played and that I do not play Poker, you come back with yet another nonsequitur claiming that my informing you that Ada is all over the Boeing 777, somehow puts me in over my head.

Nonsense. If you can't admit that your card got pulled, then you will never be able to admit that remote control of a Boeing 777 is possible through the SATCOM ACARS Avionics system, no matter how much evidence I put before you.

Ada is the Boeing 777 and the Boeing 777 is Ada. Anyone knowing anything about commercial aviation already knew that. The fact that you attempted to catch me on something that is so obvious, is proof positive that you too are feigning expertise.

Why not just learn something here, instead of fighting an education? I'm telling you, as someone having flown aircraft just like these, that it is absolutely possible to gain command of the flight control system via a remote link and that doing so is not science fiction. I'm not saying that is precisely what happened, but I am saying that the Media has not informed you about the distinct possibility that it could have happened. They would rather you not know - because it immediately draws the question: Well, if that can be done with flight 370, what about flight's 11 and 175? Since the media knows that it dropped the ball on those questions a very long time ago, it cannot afford to have people asking such questions, as it would call into question their own professional credibility.

This is WHY they have been all over the map with glorified excuses for what is happening with flight 370 right now. No one in the media is saying anything about the ability to control the damn thing remotely.

Wow, that was long.

I admit my mistake. For some reason I thought you said
Your assumption that such re-coding never takes place or is too difficult to accomplish is just hogwash - this is what they are designed to do, for crying out loud. We are talking about custom coding and modifications - that's it.

I guess I was mistaken.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

It appears that PW4000 now realises what a dolt he was. By referencing ADA as being relevent to anything is inane at best.
Had programming languages advance just a little faster he would have been blaming C++ or JAVA.

What is worse is the fact that he taalks about custom coding or modifications as if they were the simplest of all coding requirements. The reality is that they are the hardest and most complex.

This thread can be filed under F for Fail
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Can you explain to anyone in this thread exactly what you mean when you say I got in "over my head." I am the one who told you that Ada was used in aviation. You did not tell me that. You were not informing me, I was informing you and those in this thread who may not have known. You then tell me that I'm exposing myself because I informed you that Ada was used in such environments. What is it about facts that you don't like?

You cannot refute the link because my statement that Ada was used in the avionics of the Boeing 777 turned out to be true upon your reading the link. So, when you found out that your Poker Card had been played and that I do not play Poker, you come back with yet another nonsequitur claiming that my informing you that Ada is all over the Boeing 777, somehow puts me in over my head.

Nonsense. If you can't admit that your card got pulled, then you will never be able to admit that remote control of a Boeing 777 is possible through the SATCOM ACARS Avionics system, no matter how much evidence I put before you.

Ada is the Boeing 777 and the Boeing 777 is Ada. Anyone knowing anything about commercial aviation already knew that. The fact that you attempted to catch me on something that is so obvious, is proof positive that you too are feigning expertise.

Why not just learn something here, instead of fighting an education? I'm telling you, as someone having flown aircraft just like these, that it is absolutely possible to gain command of the flight control system via a remote link and that doing so is not science fiction. I'm not saying that is precisely what happened, but I am saying that the Media has not informed you about the distinct possibility that it could have happened. They would rather you not know - because it immediately draws the question: Well, if that can be done with flight 370, what about flight's 11 and 175? Since the media knows that it dropped the ball on those questions a very long time ago, it cannot afford to have people asking such questions, as it would call into question their own professional credibility.

This is WHY they have been all over the map with glorified excuses for what is happening with flight 370 right now. No one in the media is saying anything about the ability to control the damn thing remotely.
Minor point.

IMO the media lost all it's "professional credibility" a long time ago.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Five pages of speculation and sniping at other members, and nothing. The media doesn't know, the government doesn't know (or isn't talking if they do), no one knows what happened to that airplane.

I'm sticking with the fifth dimension theory. It's as good as anything else that has been posted.
 
Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

One more time. The code you are sheepishly referring to is called Ada. Ada is used primarily in avionics programming, especially where real-time fault tolerant and redundant embedded systems run and where high availability and failover is required. Airlines have their LRUs recoded all the time. Your assumption that such re-coding never takes place or is too difficult to accomplish is just hogwash - this is what they are designed to do, for crying out loud. We are talking about custom coding and modifications - that's it.

Um, dude. You just proved my point: someone needs physical access to do that, and the engineering skill to design completely new functions into the aircraft. You need a software programmer very, very familiar with those systems. You need a lot of time and a lot of testing. Yes, Boeing and NASA can do that. You are completely handwaving the enormous complexity of that task. Al Qaeda can't do that. Then you need to have a maintenance crew install this ridiculous poison gas cylinder of yours.


Lastly, this notion that aircraft cannot be remotely controlled is likewise, hogwash:
I never said it was impossible to remotely control an aircraft. I said it was impossible to remotely control an aircraft without first modifying those key systems. If you actually start reading my posts, you might understand them better.


And for some ungodly reason you think that's more likely than the pilot just going nuts and trying to defect to Iran, or a hijacking. Or any number of other things.

Stop acting like a child. You're responding to posts that weren't directed at you and weren't responding to your absurd theory, and getting upset that in those posts I'm not talking about your theory. What the hell is wrong with you? Must you be the center of attention for every single post made on this topic?
 
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Re: U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

Five pages of speculation and sniping at other members, and nothing. The media doesn't know, the government doesn't know (or isn't talking if they do), no one knows what happened to that airplane.

I'm sticking with the fifth dimension theory. It's as good as anything else that has been posted.

This event will make a great made for tv movie in 2020.
 
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