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Thread: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That these two people in the conversation were actually able to overthrow the Ukrainian government must rank as the greatest diplomatic coup of the ages. I'm certainly impressed.
    The more you think about it the more ridiculous it becomes: a diplomat took a picture with a recognized important factional leader in a country; there's an uprising, that diplomat says that leader is probably going to take over, and that's okay/preferable; the leader ends up taking power. That's evidence of a coup created by the CIA? How obscenely ignorant of both foreign affairs/State Department operations and intelligence operations do you have to be to make that assumption? Christ: there's so many things I'm ignorant of, but I try not to post conspiracy theories about them. I'm not a high school football coach or storm window sales executive, so I don't post crazy theories about those industries.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    The more you think about it the more ridiculous it becomes: a diplomat took a picture with a recognized important factional leader in a country; there's an uprising, that diplomat says that leader is probably going to take over, and that's okay/preferable; the leader ends up taking power. That's evidence of a coup created by the CIA? How obscenely ignorant of both foreign affairs/State Department operations and intelligence operations do you have to be to make that assumption? Christ: there's so many things I'm ignorant of, but I try not to post conspiracy theories about them. I'm not a high school football coach or storm window sales executive, so I don't post crazy theories about those industries.
    You overlooked the cookie angle. Any word yet on what kind they were? It might be a factor.

  3. #183
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    What you have is a US diplomat talking to another about the two players and which one they preferred, and which one they thought would come out on top. Apparently, in bizarro world, it's better for diplomats to be wrong- I guess that makes them look innocent. If you're right? You're evil. If you're wrong? You're dumb. Very convenient.
    Phone calls were made by Nuland directly to Yats to tell him the US wanted him to be president and not the boxer or the right wing extremist. Next thing we know, Yats is the unelected president of Ukraine. So what really have here is a very high level US State Department diplomat with the authority and creditionals to represent US foreign policy and negotiate directly to and with representives and leaders of another country in order to influence a favorable outcome for US interests. Don't act so shocked, countries have been using that kind of representative diplomacy for centuries.


    lol, so that's a no. Difficult to admit, we see.

    Would you believe it if they did? So what does it matter?

    She gave her opinion on which of two would be better, and she was right. SHOCKER.
    Nuland speaks for and represents US foreign policy and she didn't make the decision to pick Yats on her own....no no no....she was advised by Freedom House...a neocon think tank funded by the US government. I must say, it's impressive how little you know on the subject, owo. lol

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Phone calls were made by Nuland directly to Yats to tell him the US wanted him to be president and not the boxer or the right wing extremist. Next thing we know, Yats is the unelected president of Ukraine. So what really have here is a very high level US State Department diplomat with the authority and creditionals to represent US foreign policy and negotiate directly to and with representives and leaders of another country in order to influence a favorable outcome for US interests. Don't act so shocked, countries have been using that kind of representative diplomacy for centuries.


    Nuland speaks for and represents US foreign policy and she didn't make the decision to pick Yats on her own....no no no....she was advised by Freedom House...a neocon think tank funded by the US government. I must say, it's impressive how little you know on the subject, owo. lol
    But what about the cookies?
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Then if you don't hate the US, why are you so quick to assume hypercritical conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact other than people believe it's possible since the US is awful and does these type things everywhere (which they do not)?
    Gee, I dunno, why do you hate the US so much that you have to lie and misrepresent my arguement?

    You give way to much credit to the US if you think we actually could have coordinated this event. The only time this type event has even come close to occurring with the help of the US it involved an armed insurrection which this was not.
    Thats an extemely naive arguement you have to think the US isn't involved. Are you sure you don't want to rethink it?

    Pinochet is a non-sequitur.
    Don't be so dismissive. Pinochet was an excellent example of US involvement in a coup that toppled a democratically elected government.

    Your linked phone call shows nothing more than a typical discussion between two diplomats. Nothing more. I would suggest doing some research on International Affairs. IR is accomplished by every country with the sole goal of what is in the best interest of that country. Have anything else?
    Merkel didn't think so.


    Of course the US isn't going to deny the conversation. Nor should they. And it's not a ridiculous comparison between what you say and what happened with Putin saying he hoped Obama was elected; that is unless what you say happened is ridiculous, which it is (which means they both are). That's why I stated it. To demonstrate the illogical and unrealistic jump from the phone call to saying there is proof the US put them in power.
    Do you ever actually read what you write or what other people write? Or is all just logical fallacies one right after another with you?

    Do you feel that any country has the right to invade another country and impose their chosen and hand picked person over that government? You accuse the US of doing that with no proof yet support Russia doing that very thing while denying it happened against empirical evidence that they did?

    Why? If not out of hatred for the US?
    Why? Why do you keep defending far right nazi nationalist if not for your deep hatred for the US? See, I can play that game, too.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    But what about the cookies?
    Good question, what about those cookies?

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Good question, what about those cookies?
    LOL. I'm too damn tired to read any more conspiracy theory BS.

    Good night Moot. Have a good evening. Seriously. Until I got this headache (unrelated to you) it was fun going back and forth. Maybe tomorrow.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    What? Nazi's? Reductio ad Hitlerum. Some of the protestors were priests as well. Does that make them all priests. Some were woman, are they all women?

    That riot you mentioned has nothing to so with this.

    At this point, I'm extracting myself from the attempts of others to cloud the true issue, which is... At what point in your mind, does any of this give Russia the right to invade another sovereign nation and take control with their military that they have a signed treaty with that country that precludes such military aggression?
    Not everybody views Russia's response to a US backed overthrow of an elected government in the same terms.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Phone calls were made by Nuland directly to Yats to tell him the US wanted him to be president and not the boxer or the right wing extremist. Next thing we know, Yats is the unelected president of Ukraine. So what really have here is a very high level US State Department diplomat with the authority and creditionals to represent US foreign policy and negotiate directly to and with representives and leaders of another country in order to influence a favorable outcome for US interests. Don't act so shocked, countries have been using that kind of representative diplomacy for centuries.
    Ummm...yeah. That's not a CIA created coup or uprising, though. That's normal foreign affairs.

    Nuland speaks for and represents US foreign policy and she didn't make the decision to pick Yats on her own....no no no....she was advised by Freedom House...a neocon think tank funded by the US government. I must say, it's impressive how little you know on the subject, owo. lol
    lol what? hahahahahah
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Phone calls were made by Nuland directly to Yats to tell him the US wanted him to be president and not the boxer or the right wing extremist. Next thing we know, Yats is the unelected president of Ukraine. So what really have here is a very high level US State Department diplomat with the authority and creditionals to represent US foreign policy and negotiate directly to and with representives and leaders of another country in order to influence a favorable outcome for US interests. Don't act so shocked, countries have been using that kind of representative diplomacy for centuries.


    Nuland speaks for and represents US foreign policy and she didn't make the decision to pick Yats on her own....no no no....she was advised by Freedom House...a neocon think tank funded by the US government. I must say, it's impressive how little you know on the subject, owo. lol
    Freedom House, NED, USAID are all CIA front groups. History proves it.

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