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Thread: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

  1. #151
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Remember the famous call?

    Ukraine says not investigating bugging of U.S. diplomats phone talk | Reuters

    Here's a picture of Victoria Nuland with Arseny Yatsenyuk, a.k.a. Yats, taken on February 6 BEFORE THE COUP.



    ...<snip>


    Great post. The guy in the photo on the far left is Oleh Tyahnybok the leader of the far right nationalist party, Svoboda. That photo is probably raising a lot of hairs.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Ummm...okay? The point is you asked why "pro-Ukrainian people" would be getting together...well, it is, ya know, in the country of Ukraine, so they really don't need an excuse.
    Well, ya know, "pro-russian people" aren't from Russia and you missed the point by a mile.

    What straw man? And an argument about what? What is it you think I'm arguing here, actually? Because it seems like you don't know. Anyway, when they show up, people here (you, in this case) ask why, say it's to start trouble, and are against it. When they don't show up, people here (not you, but others with your position) then make the argument that it's because they don't exist, period. So what could they do that wouldn't upset you guys? Not showing up means they don't exist, showing up means they want trouble. lol convenient.
    You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    I don't live in Florida, I just used that as an example.

    I'm sure that advocates of both sides traveled to that area and other areas; and that there are advocates of both sides that actually live in that area.

    Trouble makers come in all shapes and forms. Just because a person is on the right side of argument doesn't mean that they will use peaceful means to advocate for their position.
    "Just because" some protestors wear nazi symbols and have a nazi ideology "doesn't mean" they're nazi's. Really?


    You don't have to live in Florida to know about the Brook Brothers Riot.

  4. #154
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    "Just because" some protestors wear nazi symbols and have a nazi ideology "doesn't mean" they're nazi's. Really?


    You don't have to live in Florida to know about the Brook Brothers Riot.
    What? Nazi's? Reductio ad Hitlerum. Some of the protestors were priests as well. Does that make them all priests. Some were woman, are they all women?

    That riot you mentioned has nothing to so with this.

    At this point, I'm extracting myself from the attempts of others to cloud the true issue, which is... At what point in your mind, does any of this give Russia the right to invade another sovereign nation and take control with their military that they have a signed treaty with that country that precludes such military aggression?

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Nuland proved that the USA provoked a coup. This CIA operated, and the CIA operates the drones, has aircraft and support within the borders of Ukraine. That's invasion, like you stated about Crimea. There is no legitimate Gov't operating in Ukriane. The drones must follow boots on the ground to have an operating base, ergo were already in Ukraine. Of course, you know that, but are required to spout the Gov't line. You have my sympathy. Must be hard for anyone with half a brain.
    No legitimate government operating in the Ukraine?? What would you call the Ukrainian Parliament??

    All these fanciful conspiracy theories only make your position ever more foolish.

  6. #156
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    More CIA in Ukraine
    CIA: Given Free Hand in Lithuania, Behind Color Revolution in Ukraine | Libya 360°
    "CIA: Given Free Hand in Lithuania, Behind Color Revolution in Ukraine"

    "Since recently the Central Intelligence Agency’s Lithuanian office has to deal with providing for the activities of non-government organizations in Ukraine which support the ongoing protests and organize resounding actions against «Russia’s interference into the internal affairs of Ukraine». They also counter «Russian propaganda». For instance, NTV channel was synchronously switched off a few minutes before it was to air the documentary Call Agent across the Baltic States-
    "
    Thanks for that post from a blog. That was cool. He seems to know almost as much about the inner workings of the CIA as you do!
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    What? Nazi's? Reductio ad Hitlerum. Some of the protestors were priests as well. Does that make them all priests. Some were woman, are they all women?

    That riot you mentioned has nothing to so with this.

    At this point, I'm extracting myself from the attempts of others to cloud the true issue, which is... At what point in your mind, does any of this give Russia the right to invade another sovereign nation and take control with their military that they have a signed treaty with that country that precludes such military aggression?
    I get the feeling that those arguing on Russia's right to invade, while bringing up the CIA boogeyman, are relics from the Cold War who wept openly when the Wall came down. Now they are looking for a comeback and spouting the same propaganda and lies that was so commonplace during the Cold War. There doesn't seem to be any other logical explanation for their craziness.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Well, ya know, "pro-russian people" aren't from Russia and you missed the point by a mile.
    I never said they were. This is the second time today I've had to remind you that you're discussing this with me and what I said, not what you wished I would've said in order to make your point. Beau said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Maybe they live there? It's their country even if they don't live in that city. We had people from all over demonstrating in Florida about the court case that shall go unnamed.
    You replied:

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Or maybe the Right Sector live in western pro-Ukraine and traveled to eastern pro-Russian Ukraine to cause trouble.
    And I said a pro-Ukrainian demonstration really doesn't need an excuse to happen in Ukraine.

    You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?
    That probably confused you greatly, I'm sorry. I'll type slower next time.
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I get the feeling that those arguing on Russia's right to invade, while bringing up the CIA boogeyman, are relics from the Cold War who wept openly when the Wall came down. Now they are looking for a comeback and spouting the same propaganda and lies that was so commonplace during the Cold War. There doesn't seem to be any other logical explanation for their craziness.
    I don't think so. Honestly, I think they're anti-government (US government, of course, they don't care about any others) types. They're sick of "the Man" and "the Establishment" and "Media bias" and "the Illuminati" and whatever else they contrive to explain why they feel they've been put down. So anything that looks like it's sticking its thumb in the eye of all/any/some of those things? They support it. The old "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing. They see the world in black and white, good and evil: they found out at some point that the US wasn't the good guy they had always been told it was- that it was just looking after its own interests? Then it must be evil. And they fight it tooth and nail. Putin fights it? Then they love Putin.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    What? Nazi's? Reductio ad Hitlerum. Some of the protestors were priests as well. Does that make them all priests. Some were woman, are they all women?

    That riot you mentioned has nothing to so with this.

    At this point, I'm extracting myself from the attempts of others to cloud the true issue, which is... At what point in your mind, does any of this give Russia the right to invade another sovereign nation and take control with their military that they have a signed treaty with that country that precludes such military aggression?



    Russia never really left Crimea and Crimea never really left Russia. The Black Fleet Navy has been in Crimea since the USSR was in power. The majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian and born under USSR and have very little in common with Ukraine either culturally or economically.

    au·ton·o·my : the state of existing or acting separately from others : the power or right of a country, group, etc., to govern itself

    Is Crimea an autonomous republic or not? It isn't much of an autonomy if their only choice in the referendum is which of two countries they want to lord over them. Legal or not, they voted to stay with Russia mainly because they don't want to be part of a far right wing nationalist government that hates ethnic speaking Russians.

    The irony is that the pro-Ukraines had a lot of support for independence from russian speaking people...until they tried to ban the russian language and threaten ethnic Russians.

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