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Thread: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

  1. #111
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Why do I have to keep answering that same question?
    I really don't know. Some people think if you repeat a lie often enough then it makes it true.

    No. What are you watching? I watch video like this one:
    [video=youtube;V9Dk2emDU0o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Dk2emDU0o[video]
    and this one:
    [video=youtube;ffYW3nlBwZk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffYW3nlBwZk[video]
    and this one:
    [video=youtube;SKxRJ6Zqzdc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKxRJ6Zqzdc[video]

    As well as watch Ukrainian TV:

    Espreso TV - LIVE - YouTube

    RT:
    On air ? RT

    I used to watch Black Sea TV (Ukraine) but it's now off the air... imagine that.

    Plus Turkish TV news, Poland news, and a number of the usual news outlets like CNN International, BBC and others.

    Again, what do you use to get your news?
    I like to find and analyze many sources, too. For instance, when western media reported the two people killed and several wounded in shoot out last week, they only tell half the story. Here is story from Yahoo and ABC....

    http://news.yahoo.com/2-dead-shootou...114102121.html

    Ukraine Official: 2 Dead, Several Hurt in Shootout - ABC News

    Here is same story from Ukraine News.....

    Ukranian News - 2 Killed, 5 Injured In Shooting In Central Kharkiv

    Big difference, eh? Yahoo and ABC allude that the attacks that killed two people were Pro-Russian activists ...Ukraine news says opposite. Who is telling the truth?


    Have I shown you enough sources to finally break you guys from asking that question? Just because I have information that you do not, and believe the facts on the ground rather than the propaganda, doesn't mean I'm reading too much western propaganda. It means you guys aren't reading enough facts from enough sources.

    I take all the information, watch as much raw video (without comment from any one) and make up my own mind. Do you understand Russian? If not, you're the ones that are believing the propaganda if you believe the interpreter.
    Then I'll be interested to know what you think about the ABC story vs Ukraine News story.
    Last edited by Moot; 03-16-14 at 02:15 AM.

  2. #112
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    Pro-Russian demonstrators.


    You just posted a video that depicts strictly a single narrative throughout the entire video i.e supposedly the peaceful waving flags pro-unity (whatever it means) protesters being attacked by the pro-Russian mob, that is not what actually happened there.
    What actually happened was a clash between pro-Russian fighters and the anti-Russian fighters, both groups came prepared and were organised, the pro-Russian group was bigger and won.
    There were of course also peaceful demonstrators on both sides but these weren't the people that were fighting there.


    I couldn't care less about what Vice "journalists" think about the US.


    No, I think that they are "unbiased", judging by their videos that you constantly post and by the poor analysis of the situation that they make in these videos.

    Fallen.
    Like I said, I was responding to MOOT's question to me inferring that I read too much western biased media, and used those video's as just one example of many.

    I can't figure out why you chose to comment, and of you like the videos or not. Either way, they were posted for MOOT in response to her question. Not as me trying to sell them as the best or singular source; just one of many and only for what they're worth to whomever watches or chooses not to watch.

  3. #113
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Like I said, I was responding to MOOT's question to me inferring that I read too much western biased media, and used those video's as just one example of many.

    I can't figure out why you chose to comment, and of you like the videos or not. Either way, they were posted for MOOT in response to her question. Not as me trying to sell them as the best or singular source; just one of many and only for what they're worth to whomever watches or chooses not to watch.
    I chose to comment, because you seem to constantly promote these Vice videos as some kind of a quality unbiased source for information regarding Ukraine.
    I do not agree with that as their coverage is far from being unbiased, and moreover it suffers from a very poor analysis (if they analyse it at all) of the situation on the ground, as I explained in my previous post.

    Fallen.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I really don't know. Some people think if you repeat a lie often enough then it makes it true.



    I like to find and analyze many sources, too. For instance, when western media reported the two people killed and several wounded in shoot out last week, they only tell half the story. Here is story from ABC....

    Ukraine Official: 2 Dead, Several Hurt in Shootout - ABC News

    Here is same story from Ukraine News.....

    Ukranian News - 2 Killed, 5 Injured In Shooting In Central Kharkiv

    Big difference, eh? ABC alludes that the attacks that killed two people were from Pro-Russian activists...Ukraine news says opposite. Who is telling the truth?


    Then I'll be interested to know what you think about the ABC story vs Ukraine News story.
    I have no idea which is true and which is not. I take all the information and see what parts of the stories line up, and then see what parts are so far abroad that they are conjecture or true propaganda rather than fact.

    In this case, the ABC report was actually a reprint from Associated Press and stated both sides without blaming any one side. They seemed to give both the Ukrainian and Russian versions. The Ukrainian News site you posted is one that I go to also. They give the Pro-Russian side most of the time, as does KyivPost / Independence. Community. Trust gives the Pro-Ukraine side most of the time.

    I'm not a big fan of ABC. AP is a reasonably unbiased source, and I would presume that ABC printed their article without edit.

    EDIT: I forgot to answer your question. I would give a little more credence to the Ukraine News in this instance, since the AP story was ambiguous.
    Last edited by Beaudreaux; 03-16-14 at 02:25 AM.

  5. #115
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukas105 View Post
    Perhaps it IS the Western powers that have been aggressive since 1991. NATO already has Turkey, Norway, The Baltic States, Poland, and some Balkan countries. NATO is a Cold War relic, and only serves to threaten the Russian Federation into action to keep its "borderland" from the West.

    TL;DR '
    Russia doesn't want Ukraine or Belarus under European/NATO control because it will erase their "protection"/border countries with the West.
    If the West wanted to invade Russia do you really believe a 'protection' border country would help? That would be a WWI or WWII strategy perhaps.

  6. #116
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    I chose to comment, because you seem to constantly promote these Vice videos as some kind of a quality unbiased source for information regarding Ukraine.
    I do not agree with that as their coverage is far from being unbiased, and moreover it suffers from a very poor analysis (if they analyse it at all) of the situation on the ground, as I explained in my previous post.

    Fallen.
    Then don't watch them. I watch them as well as other similar sites because they give a unique view that no one else gives, without much analysis (even though it appears you prefer someone else opinion rather than raw data) that allows me to make up my own mind.

    If it pisses you off, ignore it. I've only posted a few of their videos and only in response to someone asking a question that the video can either answer or explain as was the case here.

    Ignore them. If the Mods ask me to stop, I will.

  7. #117
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    That did happen to some extent, but the main aspect of an invasion is troops from one country entering another country without that latter country's consent. Since that's undeniably what occurred, what Russia did constitutes an invasion.


    This is a ridiculous assertion. A nation cannot invade itself.
    Tell that to the South. lol




    We only have bases in foreign countries with express permission by treaties with those countries. If our troops poured out of those bases and took over large swaths of any of those countries, I would be condemning it as an invasion as well
    It's a good point...except that Crimea is more ethnic Russian than ethnic Ukraine. Is it possible they felt threatened by the new regime's anti-russian sentiments?

  8. #118
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    It's a good point...except that Crimea is more ethnic Russian than ethnic Ukraine. Is it possible they felt threatened by the new regime's anti-russian sentiments?
    Okay, but that would be a possible reason for the invasion, not an argument against an invasion occurring.
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  9. #119
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    I have no idea which is true and which is not. I take all the information and see what parts of the stories line up, and then see what parts are so far abroad that they are conjecture or true propaganda rather than fact.
    In the video you posted of the pro-russian mob attacking the pro-ukraine activists....did you notice that the pro-ukraines had tear gas, masks and metal pipes? Just because they were outnumbered doesn't mean they didn't come prepared for a fight or to cause trouble. What were they doing at a pro-russia rally in eastern Ukraine, anyway?

    In this case, the ABC report was actually a reprint from Associated Press and stated both sides without blaming any one side. They seemed to give both the Ukrainian and Russian versions. The Ukrainian News site you posted is one that I go to also. They give the Pro-Russian side most of the time, as does KyivPost / Independence. Community. Trust gives the Pro-Ukraine side most of the time.

    I'm not a big fan of ABC. AP is a reasonably unbiased source, and I would presume that ABC printed their article without edit.

    EDIT: I forgot to answer your question. I would give a little more credence to the Ukraine News in this instance, since the AP story was ambiguous.
    I have to agree, the Ukraine story gave a lot more information...even addresses. The Yahoo story I added after you responded but it gives the impression that the pro-russian side were the aggressors in the attack that killed two people....

    "...Details of the Friday night shooting in the city of Kharkiv were murky, but local news reports said it broke out after a skirmish between pro-Russia demonstrators and their opponents.

    A spokesman for Right Sector in eastern Ukraine, Igor Moseichuk, was quoted by the Interfax news agency as saying the shooting was a "planned provocation by pro-Russian forces."...."
    2 dead in shootout in eastern Ukraine

    If someone had only read the Yahoo story they might think that Pro-Russian activists were the aggressors that got two people killed.
    Last edited by Moot; 03-16-14 at 03:25 AM.

  10. #120
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    In the video you posted of the pro-russian mob attacking the pro-ukraine activists....did you notice that the pro-ukraines had tear gas, masks and metal pipes? Just because they were outnumbered doesn't mean they didn't come prepared for a fight or to cause trouble. What were they doing in pro-russia eastern Ukraine, anyway?

    I have to agree, the Ukraine story gave a lot more information...even addresses. The Yahoo story I added after you responded but it gives the impression that the pro-russian side were the aggressors in the attack that killed two people....


    2 dead in shootout in eastern Ukraine

    If someone had only read the Yahoo story they might think that Pro-Russian activists were the aggressors that got two people killed.
    Maybe they live there? It's their country even if they don't live in that city. We had people from all over demonstrating in Florida about the court case that shall go unnamed.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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