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Thread: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    The USA should acknowledge the Cold War is back on and form a NATO-like pact with Eastern European countries such as Poland, including military bases and nuclear armaments. We also should loudly declare Bosnia an imprisoned state calling for them to revolute if not allowed to vote to withdraw from Russian domination and all other regions of Russia to do the same. We should do the same for all regions on and within Russia's Southern border.

    In that, Russia is outnumbered and with chaos on and within two of its borders. Russia no longer has the size, population or economic base it had as the USSR. Russia could not withstand the contest. The number of intense enemies by the tens of millions Russia has within and on their borders would overwhelm Russia and would push Russia into a monor and only regional power.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I'm just wondering if that would constitute an invasion. Because when you said:
    Imo, an invasion would be something along the order of thousands of troops, tanks, artillery, air support pouring across the borders, occupying the capital and capturing leaders and throwing resisters in prison or executing them. I saw none of that....unless you want to count the coup by the Ukraine opposition now occupying the capital, attacking pro-russians, etc.


    ...it kinda implies that you think it's actually impossible for the US to 'invade' any of the nations Beau mentioned.
    Many countries don't want US bases in their country, but that doesn't seem to stop the US.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Crimea isn't a district, it's a republic. Let the international observers decide if the vote is fair....

    International monitors invited by Russia arrive in Crimea to observe Sunday's referendum to join Russia.
    http://news.yahoo.com/video/russian-...064907738.html
    Where are they from? Where will they be located? What will they be allowed to actually observe?

    Why were the OCSE monitors run out of Crimea? Why were they fired upon by Russians?



    Crimea: Warning shots fired to block monitors, amid claims of further Russian troop movements - YouTube

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Imo, an invasion would be something along the order of thousands of troops, tanks, artillery, air support pouring across the borders, occupying the capital and capturing leaders and throwing resisters in prison or executing them. I saw none of that....unless you want to count the coup by the Ukraine opposition now occupying the capital, attacking pro-russians, etc.
    I don't think that's really required. There are Russian troops that have seized areas.

    Many countries don't want US bases in their country, but that doesn't seem to stop the US.
    ....So? I'm not sure of the relevance. Could the US invade South Korea? You seem to be saying it couldn't, because there's already tens of thousands of American troops there.
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    and this one:
    Nice "unbiased" coverage. lol

    Those poor, poor, "peaceful anti-Russian demonstrators", I wonder though what makes them so innocent.
    It must be their peaceful pepper gas that they peacefully prepared and brought with them, and the masks to protect their faces from the gas and from being seen, or it might be the red bands that they had on their arms so they would be able to "peacefully" distinguish between foe/friendly... or...ah I know... it was probably the peaceful bars made out of unknown hard substance that they peacefully held in their hands.

    lol.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Imo, an invasion would be something along the order of thousands of troops, tanks, artillery, air support pouring across the borders, occupying the capital and capturing leaders and throwing resisters in prison or executing them. I saw none of that....unless you want to count the coup by the Ukraine opposition now occupying the capital, attacking pro-russians, etc.




    Many countries don't want US bases in their country, but that doesn't seem to stop the US.
    (emphasis added by me)

    Maybe your looking at the wrong news sources, because that's exactly what is happening. Look at some of the news sources I gave you. The VICE page has hours of raw video (not the ones I posted) that have a multitude of actual video showing you what's really going on. Here are two examples if you want to take the time to get the facts:



    This ones ten hours and forty-four minutes long (if you're committed to truth and really want the facts that is):


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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Imo, an invasion would be something along the order of thousands of troops, tanks, artillery, air support pouring across the borders, occupying the capital and capturing leaders and throwing resisters in prison or executing them. I saw none of that....
    That did happen to some extent, but the main aspect of an invasion is troops from one country entering another country without that latter country's consent. Since that's undeniably what occurred, what Russia did constitutes an invasion.

    unless you want to count the coup by the Ukraine opposition now occupying the capital, attacking pro-russians, etc.
    This is a ridiculous assertion. A nation cannot invade itself.


    Many countries don't want US bases in their country, but that doesn't seem to stop the US.
    We only have bases in foreign countries with express permission by treaties with those countries. If our troops poured out of those bases and took over large swaths of any of those countries, I would be condemning it as an invasion as well
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Perhaps it IS the Western powers that have been aggressive since 1991. NATO already has Turkey, Norway, The Baltic States, Poland, and some Balkan countries. NATO is a Cold War relic, and only serves to threaten the Russian Federation into action to keep its "borderland" from the West.

    TL;DR '
    Russia doesn't want Ukraine or Belarus under European/NATO control because it will erase their "protection"/border countries with the West.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The USA should acknowledge the Cold War is back on and form a NATO-like pact with Eastern European countries such as Poland, including military bases and nuclear armaments. We also should loudly declare Bosnia an imprisoned state calling for them to revolute if not allowed to vote to withdraw from Russian domination and all other regions of Russia to do the same. We should do the same for all regions on and within Russia's Southern border.

    In that, Russia is outnumbered and with chaos on and within two of its borders. Russia no longer has the size, population or economic base it had as the USSR. Russia could not withstand the contest. The number of intense enemies by the tens of millions Russia has within and on their borders would overwhelm Russia and would push Russia into a monor and only regional power.
    "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    Nice "unbiased" coverage. lol

    Those poor, poor, "peaceful ant-Russian demonstrators", I wonder though what makes them so innocent.
    It must be their peaceful pepper gas that they peacefully prepared and brought with them, and the masks to protect their faces from the gas and from being seen, or it might be the red bands that they had on their arms so they would be able to "peacefully" distinguish between foe/friendly... or...ah I know... it was probably the peaceful bars made out of unknown hard substance that they peacefully held in their hands.

    lol.

    Fallen.
    Who was throwing the bricks? Who was throwing the explosives? Who was breaking through the police lines and attacking people?

    I'm not saying that the Ukrainians are angels. I'm trying to show that I get info from a multitude of sources.

    Have you ever heard of VICE? They are consistently doing reports and videos that make the US look bad.

    If you think they're not unbiased, then maybe it's because the truth and facts are biased against your position. Ever thought about that? These guys are in no way pro-US, and in most cases could be considered anti-US.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Who was throwing the bricks? Who was throwing the explosives? Who was breaking through the police lines and attacking people?
    Pro-Russian demonstrators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    I'm not saying that the Ukrainians are angels. I'm trying to show that I get info from a multitude of sources.
    You just posted a video that depicts strictly a single narrative throughout the entire video i.e supposedly the peaceful waving flags pro-unity (whatever it means) protesters being attacked by the pro-Russian mob, that is not what actually happened there.
    What actually happened was a clash between pro-Russian fighters and the anti-Russian fighters, both groups came prepared and were organised, the pro-Russian group was bigger and won.
    There were of course also peaceful demonstrators on both sides but these weren't the people that were fighting there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Have you ever heard of VICE? They are consistently doing reports and videos that make the US look bad.
    I couldn't care less about what Vice "journalists" think about the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    If you think they're not unbiased, then maybe it's because the truth and facts are biased against your position. Ever thought about that? These guys are in no way pro-US, and in most cases could be considered anti-US.
    No, I think that they are "unbiased", judging by their videos that you constantly post and by the poor analysis of the situation that they make in these videos.

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