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Thread: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Do you really think that the agreement allows Russia to occupy Crimea without Ukraine's consent and evict Ukrainian forces from their bases?
    It's hard to say what people will believe anymore. They seem to confuse feelings with facts.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    As I said to someone else earlier...

    If the US moved our troops out of our bases in Britain, Germany and Japan, blew the doors down on their Parliaments, installed our guy in as the new leader, called for a vote for them to join the US while having armed US military at each polling station, took complete control of their press, their utilities and infrastructure, blocked their navies from being able to move, controlled all traffic in and out of their countries, prohibited any demonstrations against our actions and imprisoned anyone that tried, brought additional troops, armor and weapons into Britain, Germany and Japan to ensure we could annex them into the US, and any of the other militaristic actions that Russia has taken in Ukraine, would you feel that was an invasion by the US?

    Check all the doors and windows. You don't seem to be getting enough oxygen. Ifs? Fantasys? If they aren't wearing patches or insignias, they are Academi (Blackwater). See what I mean?

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Check all the doors and windows. You don't seem to be getting enough oxygen. Ifs? Fantasys? If they aren't wearing patches or insignias, they are Academi (Blackwater). See what I mean?
    Dude, take a break.

    You honestly believe what you're saying? Or are you being sarcastic?

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Check all the doors and windows. You don't seem to be getting enough oxygen. Ifs? Fantasys? If they aren't wearing patches or insignias, they are Academi (Blackwater). See what I mean?
    Check out these doors and windows. Viktor Yanukovych leaves behind palace monument to greed and corruption - Telegraph

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Poe's law in full effect.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    As I said to someone else earlier...

    If the US moved our troops out of our bases in Britain, Germany and Japan, blew the doors down on their Parliaments, installed our guy in as the new leader, called for a vote for them to join the US while having armed US military at each polling station, took complete control of their press, their utilities and infrastructure, blocked their navies from being able to move, controlled all traffic in and out of their countries, prohibited any demonstrations against our actions and imprisoned anyone that tried, brought additional troops, armor and weapons into Britain, Germany and Japan to ensure we could annex them into the US, and any of the other militaristic actions that Russia has taken in Ukraine, would you feel that was an invasion by the US?
    Is it possible that you've been reading too much western propaganda? The news coming out of western media is just as one sided and subjective as the Kremlins.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Is it possible that you've been reading too much western propaganda? The news coming out of western media is just as one sided and subjective as the Kremlins.
    I'm just wondering if that would constitute an invasion. Because when you said:


    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    How could Russia invade Crimea if it already had a large naval base and 160,000(?) troops located there 'before' the protests or overthrow of Ukraine government?
    ...it kinda implies that you think it's actually impossible for the US to 'invade' any of the nations Beau mentioned.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    What?

    Russia already invaded Ukraine, militarily defeated and is occupying the Ukraine region of Crimea. Under the gun of the Russian military the parliament for the Crimea district of Ukraine acknowledged they were unless Russian military control in their vote. Calling that vote democracy is absurd.
    Crimea isn't a district, it's a republic. Let the international observers decide if the vote is fair....

    International monitors invited by Russia arrive in Crimea to observe Sunday's referendum to join Russia.
    http://news.yahoo.com/video/russian-...064907738.html

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Is it possible that you've been reading too much western propaganda? The news coming out of western media is just as one sided and subjective as the Kremlins.
    Why do I have to keep answering that same question?

    No. What are you watching? I watch video like this one:

    and this one:

    and this one:


    As well as watch Ukrainian TV:

    Espreso TV - LIVE - YouTube

    RT:
    On air ? RT

    I used to watch Black Sea TV (Ukraine) but it's now off the air... imagine that.

    Plus Turkish TV news, Poland news, and a number of the usual news outlets like CNN International, BBC and others.

    Again, what do you use to get your news?

    Have I shown you enough sources to finally break you guys from asking that question? Just because I have information that you do not, and believe the facts on the ground rather than the propaganda, doesn't mean I'm reading too much western propaganda. It means you guys aren't reading enough facts from enough sources.

    I take all the information, watch as much raw video (without comment from any one) and make up my own mind. Do you understand Russian? If not, you're the ones that are believing the propaganda if you believe the interpreter.

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    Re: Crimea parliament declares independence from Ukraine ahead of referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    I agree. However, the fact that these politicians impeached Yanukovych demonstrates the fact that his ouster was not a neo-Nazi coup.
    That fact simply demonstrated that they wanted to save their own political and maybe even actual behinds, that is all.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    That's how it is in the US, too, except we only have two parties.

    If I had to guess, the decision of Yanukovych's own party to back his impeachment stems more from politicking than ideology. He's extremely dangerous to keep from a political standpoint, considering how much Ukrainians hate him.
    Yanukovich was a political zombie by the time of his supposed impeachment.
    He was hated in all parts of the country, even those that voted for him into his presidency seat were beginning to get frustrated and disillusioned with him.

    ...and I doubt that you would find any good parallel between US/European political life and the "criminal/oligarch/family" absolutely corrupt political system that existed, and unfortunately still exists in Ukraine, as the same people that stole from Ukraine before Yanukovich simply got back to rule once more.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Oh, I'm not denying the fact that these scum have their presence or that they're benefiting from the revolution. I just object to the notion that the entire movement is being directed by their hands. Unfortunately, every revolution has its extremists, and I just hope that the moderates will be able to marginalize their influence and bring Ukraine into the Western world.
    BTW, even when we disagree, you tend to present well-written and thoughtful arguments. Keep it up
    This "revolution" isn't being directed by the Nazis and the nationalist. However, as can be seen throughout the protests in Maidan and from the more recent clashes in the East of the country these people indeed represent the more organised, coordinated and active part of the "revolution".
    Furthermore, Tyagniboks' current political status as one of the winners of the revolution provides them with the window they need to enter the Ukrainian political life as a powerful and influential player, hence I don't see any reason to why they would be suddenly marginalized - there is simply no one that can do it in modern Ukraine.

    My problem with what you initially written is pretty much the same problem I have with a lot of the media coverage that comes from Western media sources.
    While Russian government affiliated news channels are promoting one extreme version of the situation i.e. Nazis took control over Ukraine, the Western media tries to downplay the role of such groups in the revolution. The Russian propaganda is crude and easy to spot, whereas the Western media simply omits or/and doesn't cover/poorly analyses certain situations, thus creating a certain image which is often incomplete or simply false.

    Russians are playing the usual Nazi card, as it is the easiest card to play in-order to get support on the "home front" in Russia, but imo a lot of Western media plays their regular card as well i.e "evil Putin, evil empire..." vs "democracy, liberty..." instead of actually analyzing what's happening on the ground.




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