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Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out?

Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

The problem I see with a 3/4 party system is what the #1 or #2 party must give up to the 3rd party to form a coalition.
The USA has not had to have new elections due to no confidence, even if folks feel that way right now.
We already have those in our two parties, such as the TEAs in the GOP and the CBC in the DEMs .
The Mark said:
I think there are merits and demerits to both a 2-party and a multi-party system. Both are better than a single party, IMO.
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Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

paddymcdougall said:
thank you for posting on-topic!! I was just coming in to apologize for letting other posters pull me off-topic.
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I don't mind going off tangent sometimes. I actually enjoyed the discussion on the constitution.

But I'm easy I guess.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Perotista said:
Then they would be Democrats
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No they wouldn't. They would have a much more appealing Republican party.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

NIMBY said:
The problem I see with a 3/4 party system is what the #1 or #2 party must give up to the 3rd party to form a coalition.
The USA has not had to have new elections due to no confidence, even if folks feel that way right now.
We already have those in our two parties, such as the TEAs in the GOP and the CBC in the DEMs .
Click to expand...
I think the concession process is a positive thing though - too often I see one party just bypass any kind of debate these days. Democrats do it just as much as republicans, when they have control.

On the one hand I think that on key issues and points of policy, there should be a line drawn, and to pass it requires serious concessions from the opposing group If they don't draw any real position lines, their ideological positions are not really positions so much as claims, and they appear (to me at least) as just another group of politicians who have no principles.

IMO many of the positions taken by both republicans and democrats are poor ones - and it reflects badly on everyone involved.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

The Mark said:
IMO many of the positions taken by both republicans and democrats are poor ones - and it reflects badly on everyone involved.
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Let's look at one position adopted in the Ryan/Murray budget last December.
It called for decreasing the amount of COLA for Veteran's pensions by one of the percents and would have save over $6 Billion.
My Father was a 30-year Veteran and my Mom still gets SS and Civil Service/Air Force.
She would have lost a little--I would have made it up.

But Veteran's lobbying groups pounded on Capital Hill and both parties were blaming each other and Obama.
If we can't save 6 billion on an easy choice, we will never fix the budget.
Without means-testing of those who can take a hit, we will go over 50% of the defense budget on the VA.

As a teacher who receives a pension, I can assure you that public pensions as we know them aren't long for this century.
Tens and Hundreds of Billions are owed by States and Municipalities that cannot be sustained.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

MildSteel said:
I don't mind going off tangent sometimes. I actually enjoyed the discussion on the constitution.

But I'm easy I guess.
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personally, I like easy men... whooops!!!! way off-topic! (smile)
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

haymarket said:
Sorry but I never made that argument.
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No? Ok then, so what would be your argument? Do you just desire to say how I'm wrong without presenting a position of your own? Many people have dared to say that rights come from ruling bodies already in this thread, so what will you say on the matter? Will you say something else? Considering I know you and your position, I doubt it.
 
MildSteel said:
Interesting. A couple of questions

1. Why do you say gay rights is a misnomer?
2. What exactly is buggery?

I think you have some valid points here. However, I think your assertion that somehow giving states rights precedence will somehow decrease the divisions in this country is wrong.

But overall, not bad.
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1. No one has a "right" to be gay.
2. Phil Robertson aka Duck Commander got into a bit of a flap about this very thing.

As it has always been to some degree the entire country has a bad case of "Small Town Syndrome". The advent of the Internet and all the social media sites that followed only hyper-inflated this. To quote an old Hank Williams song "Mind your own business.....You've got to mind your own business....if you mind your own business than you won't be minding mine...."


This agenda to force different groups of people together, tolerance, diversity, all inclusive multiculturalism has been the greatest single detriment to the community -- great and small that has ever been known to man.

We're always going to be divisive. We're always going to be fractional and factional, the difference in where the ability to decide social issues lies is that when given back to the States what should be theirs to decide you'll stem the creeping isolationism which is what will end up really tearing this country apart...
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

MildSteel said:
No they wouldn't. They would have a much more appealing Republican party.
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The Republican Party never had a whole bunch of appeal. Now individual candidates, yes. But it is getting so that neither party has much appeal. Feast your eyes on this, a CBS poll. Both parties are pretty much in the tank these days.

Information from inside this CBS poll, there are a lot of interesting stuff/subjects polled.
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1030274/new-york-times-cbs-news-feb-poll-results.pdf

Do you view the Republican Party favorably or unfavorably?
2/19-23/14 All favorably 33% unfavorably 61% don’t know 5%
REPUBLICANS 67% favorable 29% unfavorable 4% don’t know
DEMOCRATS 10% favorable 89% unfavorable 2% don’t know
INDEPENDENTS 31% favorable 60% unfavorable 9% don’t know

Do you view the Democratic Party favorably or unfavorably?
2/19-23/14 All favorably 42% unfavorably 53% don’t know 5%
REPUBLICANS 9% favorable 90% unfavorable 1% don’t know
DEMOCRATS 85% favorable 14% unfavorable 1% don’t know
INDEPENDENTS 30% favorable 61% unfavorable 9% don’t know

What is interesting is that independents have the same favorable/unfavorable view/percentages for both parties. 3/5ths of all independents dislike both political parties.

If the 2014 election for U.S. House of Representatives were being held today, would
you vote for the Republican candidate or the Democratic candidate in your district?

All Republican 42% Democrat 39% Other 3% don’t know/depends 16%
REPUBLICANS 86% Republican 3% Democrats 0% other 11% don’t know/depends
DEMOCRATS 3% Republican 85% Democrat 0% other 12% don’t know/depends
INDEPENDENTS 43% Republican 29% Democrat 5% other 23% don’t know/depends
It is interesting to note that 5% of independents say they will vote for a third party while 23% haven’t decided yet although as of this poll independents are vastly on the side of the Republicans. Those don’t knows/depends could easily change that though. Why the huge undecided among independents? Perhaps it is these who view both parties as evil or at least unfavorable.

In general, do you think the Republican Party has the same priorities for the country
as you have, or don’t they?
All Yes, they do 35% No, they don’t 59% DK/NA 6%
REPUBLICANS yes, they do 66% No, they don’t 29% DK/NA 5%
DEMOCRATS yes, they do 12% No, they don’t 85% DK/NA 2%
INDEPENDENTS yes, they do 35% No, they don’t 57% DK/NA 8%


In general, do you think the Democratic Party has the same priorities for the country
as you have, or don’t they?

All Yes, they do 38% No, they don’t 57% DK/NA 5%
REPUBLICANS yes, they do 7% No, they don’t 91% DK/NA 2%
DEMOCRATS yes, they do 76% No, they don’t 21% DK/NA 3%
INDEPENDENTS yes, they do 30% No, they don’t 63% DK/NA 7%

Once again the interesting thing is the independents who view the Republicans by 5 points as having the same view as they do 35-30 and don’t have 57-63. But even so, around 3/5ths of all independents think neither party has the same priorities for the country as they do.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Henrin said:
No? Ok then, so what would be your argument? Do you just desire to say how I'm wrong without presenting a position of your own? Many people have dared to say that rights come from ruling bodies already in this thread, so what will you say on the matter? Will you say something else? Considering I know you and your position, I doubt it.
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My position on rights is very clear and is stated in this very thread earlier today. Rights come from the will of the people who want a specific behavior recognized by the government as a right.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

haymarket said:
My position on rights is very clear and is stated in this very thread earlier today. Rights come from the will of the people who want a specific behavior recognized by the government as a right.
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Then basically just tyranny of the majority. Ok then.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Henrin said:
Then basically just tyranny of the majority. Ok then.
Click to expand...

Where you get that from is a mystery to me as nobody has mentioned anything tyrannical.

Oh wait - I see what you did... you used the all purpose right wing meme to disparage majority rule not realizing that in doing so you clearly imply that tyranny of the minority is far more acceptable. Got it.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

tecoyah said:
That is the very first time I have ever heard someone call Obama a conservative....did you just make that up?
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You really should catch some of the comments made here. He's a conservative. He's a neo-con. He's anything but a leftist. I hear it most commonly from "very liberal" folks.

Its amazing.
 
ChezC3 said:
1. No one has a "right" to be gay.
2. Phil Robertson aka Duck Commander got into a bit of a flap about this very thing.

As it has always been to some degree the entire country has a bad case of "Small Town Syndrome". The advent of the Internet and all the social media sites that followed only hyper-inflated this. To quote an old Hank Williams song "Mind your own business.....You've got to mind your own business....if you mind your own business than you won't be minding mine...."


This agenda to force different groups of people together, tolerance, diversity, all inclusive multiculturalism has been the greatest single detriment to the community -- great and small that has ever been known to man.

We're always going to be divisive. We're always going to be fractional and factional, the difference in where the ability to decide social issues lies is that when given back to the States what should be theirs to decide you'll stem the creeping isolationism which is what will end up really tearing this country apart...
Click to expand...

I think that letting states decide things like slavery is just as bad as forcing people who don't want to be around each other to live together.

It's possible to have a nation of various people from different ethnic and cultural backgrounds if the leadership of the nation placed emphasis on things like truthfulness, respect for others, cleanliness, discipline, knowledge and mercy. That's the big problem. First and foremost we have become a nation of liars. And it starts with the leadership. In politics, lying has become an art form. Where deceit dwells, hubris becomes prominent. And from hubris, people start to value the wrong qualities in men. We worship and put people on pedestals who are violent, thieves, arrogant, devoid of knowledge, addicted to various forms of vice, cruel, and constantly engaged in cheating. That's what is tearing this country, and indeed the world down.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

haymarket said:
What do you mean INALIENABLE?
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the correct word is unalienable........not inalienable.


"Unalienable: incapable of being alienated, that is, sold and transferred." Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 1523:

Inalienable rights: Rights which are not capable of being surrendered or transferred without the consent of the one possessing such rights. Morrison v. State, Mo. App., 252 S.W.2d 97, 101.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

MildSteel said:
The people who write the constitution specify how the government can restrict the rights of people. Therefore it is not incorrect to say that the rights come from the people who write the constitution. They are people with a particular type of power than can, through the activity of government, restrict the rights of citizens.
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the constitution is a limiting document, limiting the power of government, it does not limit people at all.......the bill of rights, are not rights.........they are declaratory and restrictive clauses placed on government, that they shall not violate the rights of the people...rights are "recognized" by the constitution, they are not granted by the constitution.

the constitution, again does not limit the people AT ALL.............why would anyone write a document to limit themselves.

show me where in the Constitution government has power over the people to direct there actions or restrict them.


MildSteel said:
First of all the Federalist papers are not law. Again the constitution was amended to abolish the practice of slavery in the United States. The rights of US citizens to own slaves was restricted by that amendment.
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what does this have to do with anything, the 14th amendment is aimed squarely at government, not the people, the amendment states" "no state shall"..

no where in the constitutions is the federal government given authority over the life's of the people........the constitution spells out who the federal government can punish.......and there are only 4 classes of people.

the federalist papers are written by 3 men who were at the Constitutional convention, the one i referenced was written by Madison, the father of the constitution, and federalist 46 explains the constitution.


MildSteel said:
Wesley Snipes tried to say that the government had no right to take taxes from him. He ended up in prison.
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the 16th is constitutional law............you cant challenge the constitutionality of the Constitution

since it is constitutional law, the federal government can make all federal laws which concern taxation, and punish tax cheats.



MildSteel said:
I can say I have the right to own slaves, but it's meaningless because the Constitution says I can't in the United States. I can say the government has no right extract income tax from me, but it's meaningless because if I don't pay, I will be penalized.
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the constitution is aimed at government, not the people, for a person to own a slave is a CRIME, for a government to sanction slavery is a constitutional violation..

income tax is legal because it is constitutional law......this means the federal government can make all federal laws concerning taxation.........if you cheat on your tax, ....its a federal crime.........not a constitutional violation

a Citizen.......cannot violate the Constitution of the U.S.........because the constitution does not address citizens..........if a person violates another persons rights...........it is a CRIME.......criminal law......not constitutional law.
 
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Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

ernst barkmann said:
the correct word is unalienable........not inalienable.


"Unalienable: incapable of being alienated, that is, sold and transferred." Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 1523:

Inalienable rights: Rights which are not capable of being surrendered or transferred without the consent of the one possessing such rights. Morrison v. State, Mo. App., 252 S.W.2d 97, 101.
Click to expand...

It cannot be demonstrated with empirical means that such a thing as a right exists. All we can say, empirically speaking, is that you are constrained to act by the resources at your disposal, and by others who can and want to constrain your activities.

What we can do is assume that such rights exist. Indeed this is what the founders meant when they said we hold these truths to be self evident. It means they were assuming certain things to be true. They were not going to try to prove that men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.
 
Any rate, I really appreciate this discussion concerning rights. I will come back to it later.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

MildSteel said:
It cannot be demonstrated with empirical means that such a thing as a right exists. All we can say, empirically speaking, is that you are constrained to act by the resources at your disposal, and by others who can and want to constrain your activities.

What we can do is assume that such rights exist. Indeed this is what the founders meant when they said we hold these truths to be self evident. It means they were assuming certain things to be true. They were not going to try to prove that men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.
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you have many many rights, those which are not enumerated by the constitution, ..fall under the 9th amendment.

your rights should ONLY be curtailed, when you violate the rights of other people, or cause a health and saftey risk to the public.

if neither one of those actions takes places, then who is the victim, of you exercising your rights.....you have to have a victim, for things to be unlawful.


the founders were making the point that your rights don't come from man but instead a higher power....." because no man has the power to give another man a right".........no man is higher than another man.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

This is breaking news?
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

ernst barkmann said:
the correct word is unalienable........not inalienable.


"Unalienable: incapable of being alienated, that is, sold and transferred." Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 1523:

Inalienable rights: Rights which are not capable of being surrendered or transferred without the consent of the one possessing such rights. Morrison v. State, Mo. App., 252 S.W.2d 97, 101.
Click to expand...

So in your opinion then - your position is nobody can buy your rights?
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

haymarket said:
So in your opinion then - your position is nobody can buy your rights?
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i explained the difference between the ....two.

our declaration of independence states "unalienable"
 
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