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Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out?

Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

If it weren't for the way Democrats spend money and ever-increase entitlements, I'd be a Democrat. In social issues, the Republican Party doesn't represent me. I'm all for gay rights/marriage/equal status; I think MJ should be legalized; I think abortion is okay up until 12-16 weeks (not exactly sure on that); I think any legislation that protects minorities' rights that's not at the expense of the rest of us is pretty much fine.

I don't agree with Democrats on immigration. But most especially, I don't agree with their welfare outlook. That program is an abject failure. And I don't agree that more government is the solution to every problem.

The Republican Party had better start morphing.

The thing that get's me about most conservatives is that they make a big deal about fiscal responsibility, but then they are willing to spend to high heaven making war around the world. Some of them seem to have never seen a war they don't like.

BTW, Ronald Reagan ran up very large deficits. He was famously criticized by then presidential candidate George H. W. Bush for his policy of increasing military spending while at the same time reducing taxes. Bush, the Father, called it "voodoo economics".
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

The thing that get's me about most conservatives is that they make a big deal about fiscal responsibility, but then they are willing to spend to high heaven making war around the world. Some of them seem to have never seen a war they don't like.

BTW, Ronald Reagan ran up very large deficits. He was famously criticized by then presidential candidate George H. W. Bush for his policy of increasing military spending while at the same time reducing taxes. Bush, the Father, called it "voodoo economics".

It just seems to me that Democrats like to give away fish . . . while Republicans like to create fishermen.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

It just seems to me that Democrats like to give away fish . . . while Republicans like to create fishermen.

I would buy that. But as far as I can tell, by their opposition to increasing spending on education, some conservatives don't appear to be interested in creating fishermen. It's just my opinion, but by their actions they appear to want the creation of fishermen left to those with money.

BTW, the cost of a college education has skyrocketed.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

You have no idea how liberals think, so stop trying to tell people what they think. Unless you'd like me to start telling you what you believe.

The only type of property that liberals care for is the body, but then, they don't see that has property, so I guess that is kind of a moot point. All types of property they do recognize as property they desire to control, and if it suits them, to assume control of.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

The only type of property that liberals care for is the body, but then, they don't see that has property, so I guess that is kind of a moot point. All types of property they do recognize as property they desire to control, and if it suits them, to assume control of.

I think conservatives like the Koch brothers try to control as much property as they can, and try to control as much of the political system as they can.

The issue of control is not confined to liberals. Although you are right, they do like to control things.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

I would buy that. But as far as I can tell, by their opposition to increasing spending on education, some conservatives don't appear to be interested in creating fishermen. It's just my opinion, but by their actions they appear to want the creation of fishermen left to those with money.

BTW, the cost of a college education has skyrocketed.

The United States spends more per student than any other country in the world. How much more should we spend before we can fix the abysmal record at our inner-city schools? Study: US Education Spending Tops Global List
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

The United States spends more per student than any other country in the world. How much more should we spend before we can fix the abysmal record at our inner-city schools? Study: US Education Spending Tops Global List

Spending on what though? Giving money to companies who profit from standardized testing?

The first thing we need to do is take a good chunk of the money we spend on making war and spend on paying teachers more. Then we need to train teachers much better. We need to make it more attractive for talented people to go into the area of education. Then we need more teachers. We need more people in the profession who are talented, intelligent, and who care deeply about children. We need to put emphasis on individual instruction and increased class time for children who are having problems.

All these things cost money. You don't just give money to companies for standardized testing and expect education to improve.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Srsly, if that's what you're saying all conservatives believe you really have no place to lecture anyone else.

Yes, I was definitely saying that literally every conservative believes exactly this. There was absolutely no sarcasm or anything involved.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

The United States spends more per student than any other country in the world. How much more should we spend before we can fix the abysmal record at our inner-city schools? Study: US Education Spending Tops Global List

Here's the thing: we're not spending more per student in those abysmal inner-city schools. We're spending more at suburban schools and private schools. Oddly enough, those schools have better outcomes!

Although it's worth pointing out that more money for inner-city schools only solves part of the problem. The myriad social and economic problems those students face means they're hamstrung from the start.
 
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Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Totally. I'm also supporting same-sex marriage and marijuana legalization just so I can have the Democratic Party's support.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Why is it that every time the Democratic Party takes a socially liberal stance on an issue, the default argument is that they're just sucking up for votes?
If "Democrats" refers to Democratic politicians, then that's true. ALL politicians suck up for votes, regardless of party.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

If it weren't for the way Democrats spend money

The only time republicans are against spending is when a Dem is in the White House
I don't agree with Democrats on immigration.

The GOP is no better, unless you actually think they believe what they say on the issue
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

It just seems to me that Democrats like to give away fish . . . while Republicans like to create fishermen.

And yet, job growth is higher when a Democrat is president.

Go figger
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

If "Democrats" refers to Democratic politicians, then that's true. ALL politicians suck up for votes, regardless of party.

You are right. They all do it. I just thought it was amazing how, even at the level of President, you now have this open embracing of gay rights and marijuana. When I saw that article, it made sense to me. A president would have never openly said such things some years ago.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Spending on what though? Giving money to companies who profit from standardized testing?

The first thing we need to do is take a good chunk of the money we spend on making war and spend on paying teachers more. Then we need to train teachers much better. We need to make it more attractive for talented people to go into the area of education. Then we need more teachers. We need more people in the profession who are talented, intelligent, and who care deeply about children. We need to put emphasis on individual instruction and increased class time for children who are having problems.

All these things cost money. You don't just give money to companies for standardized testing and expect education to improve.

^ And that right there is why I'm a Republican.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

while Republicans like to create fishermen.

Not always, no. We've seen times where Republicans would rather have paupers than more independent human beings, because it requires a little more effort.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Not always, no. We've seen times where Republicans would rather have paupers than more independent human beings, because it requires a little more effort.

Some examples please.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Srsly, if that's what you're saying all conservatives believe you really have no place to lecture anyone else.

Triple_facepalm.jpg
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

^ And that right there is why I'm a Republican.

I honestly don't understand what's wrong with spending money to improve education. What is it about what I put forward that you have a problem with.

BTW, Democrats don't put forward those ideas either.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

I honestly don't understand what's wrong with spending money to improve education. What is it about what I put forward that you have a problem with.

BTW, Democrats don't put forward those ideas either.

Well, first, you must understand I live in suburban Chicago. Teachers in this area make plenty of money. Most especially when one figures their most generous retirement programs. People who disagree with me about pension reform in Illinois always say, "Hey!!! That's part of our compensation package! It's the reason we work for the salaries we work for!" But when one uses it to show they are quite generously compensated, then they say, "Yeah, but that's a retirement! That shouldn't figure in our salaries!"

There are great people with teaching certificates, master's degrees, bachelor's in education, virtually standing in line for jobs in this state. Good people. And if they aren't good, then blame the education they've bought and paid for and the training that goes along with their education degrees.

Any time anyone talks about throwing more money at education, I cringe.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

^ And that right there is why I'm a Republican.

Because you'd rather make war than get better teachers?

Wow.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

If you're under 30 and not a liberal, you're heartless, it you're over 30 and not a conservative, you're brainless.

Basically this poll says Millennials just ain't grown up, I wonder what possible cause there could be for young adults to be so... immature? Hmmmm....
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Well, first, you must understand I live in suburban Chicago. Teachers in this area make plenty of money. Most especially when one figures their most generous retirement programs. People who disagree with me about pension reform in Illinois always say, "Hey!!! That's part of our compensation package! It's the reason we work for the salaries we work for!" But when one uses it to show they are quite generously compensated, then they say, "Yeah, but that's a retirement! That shouldn't figure in our salaries!"

There are great people with teaching certificates, master's degrees, bachelor's in education, virtually standing in line for jobs in this state. Good people. And if they aren't good, then blame the education they've bought and paid for and the training that goes along with their education degrees.

Any time anyone talks about throwing more money at education, I cringe.

Ok. That's a good response.

I suppose I feel that we need to radically change education in this country. Frankly, I feel that it's the biggest problem we face.

I can have a discussion with someone like you and put forward ideas and get a decent response. But quite frequently I find that I talk to people and they don't even know why they feel they way they do about issues. And that's a big problem. Why? Because it means that people, in general are not thinking. And when people don't think, someone else with an agenda that may not be wholesome, can step in and manipulate such persons for malicious means. You can see this very prominently in the political system in this country. Shrewd political strategists take advantage of hatred to get people to vote a particular way. They incite hatred of homosexuals, immigrants, and minorities to get votes. It's very dangerous because we were talking in another thread about how it seems that people are more angry these days.

No, I don't think teachers make enough. They don't make enough to do the job the way I would like to see it done, and they don't make enough to attract the top talent to teach. I would personally like to teach, but I don't want to live on the kind of money a teacher makes, when I can make much more. I want teachers who understand the psychology of different types of students, and have demonstrated that they can work EFFECTIVELY with different types of students by the time they graduate. This can't be the type of profession where someone just goes to a diploma mill and gets a piece of paper. It's way to important. I want them to take the time and be able to work with students on an individual basis, outside of regular class time, if necessary to get results. We don't need this standardized testing crap, We need people that know what needs to be done, and have demonstrated they can get the job done before they go in the class. We need smaller class sizes. Get it down to where a teacher has to work with no more than 10 - 15 students. Even 15 may be too much. But I know it shouldn't be any more than that. Teachers need to be making over $100,000 a year, and they need to work very, very hard. That's one thing.

Then we need to make sure they have the tools they need. Computers, books, whatever it takes. They shouldn't necessarily be bound to some centrally designated text, if a teacher feels they can teach better from another text, they should be provided that type of thing. I know if I were teaching someone about Fourier transforms, I wouldn't use any of that garbage they have in schools. I would use something like this:

Who Is Fourier? A Mathematical Adventure 2nd Edition: Transnational College of Lex: 9780964350434: Amazon.com: Books

You get a lot more mileage out of something like that than the crap they have in schools. But teachers can't do all that.

We need to reform education. Then I would believe people really want to teach people to fish.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

By the way, I would disagree with the initial premise, that Dems are embracing legalized pot. Even in here California, Gov Brown wants to "wait and see how it does in Colorado and Washington" and there is no Dem in the Senate nor the House that is pushing legalization of pot. I wish they were, but it isn't happening.

I hope the Dems will come on board soon; in my community there are many people - both dems and repubs - who want to see legalized pot. This could be a good issue for Dems to be out front on, but most politicians are scared to death of it.
 
Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

Ok. That's a good response.

I suppose I feel that we need to radically change education in this country. Frankly, I feel that it's the biggest problem we face.

I can have a discussion with someone like you and put forward ideas and get a decent response. But quite frequently I find that I talk to people and they don't even know why they feel they way they do about issues. And that's a big problem. Why? Because it means that people, in general are not thinking. And when people don't think, someone else with an agenda that may not be wholesome, can step in and manipulate such persons for malicious means. You can see this very prominently in the political system in this country. Shrewd political strategists take advantage of hatred to get people to vote a particular way. They incite hatred of homosexuals, immigrants, and minorities to get votes. It's very dangerous because we were talking in another thread about how it seems that people are more angry these days.

No, I don't think teachers make enough. They don't make enough to do the job the way I would like to see it done, and they don't make enough to attract the top talent to teach. I would personally like to teach, but I don't want to live on the kind of money a teacher makes, when I can make much more. I want teachers who understand the psychology of different types of students, and have demonstrated that they can work EFFECTIVELY with different types of students by the time they graduate. This can't be the type of profession where someone just goes to a diploma mill and gets a piece of paper. It's way to important. I want them to take the time and be able to work with students on an individual basis, outside of regular class time, if necessary to get results. We don't need this standardized testing crap, We need people that know what needs to be done, and have demonstrated they can get the job done before they go in the class. We need smaller class sizes. Get it down to where a teacher has to work with no more than 10 - 15 students. Even 15 may be too much. But I know it shouldn't be any more than that. Teachers need to be making over $100,000 a year, and they need to work very, very hard. That's one thing.

Then we need to make sure they have the tools they need. Computers, books, whatever it takes. They shouldn't necessarily be bound to some centrally designated text, if a teacher feels they can teach better from another text, they should be provided that type of thing. I know if I were teaching someone about Fourier transforms, I wouldn't use any of that garbage they have in schools. I would use something like this:

Who Is Fourier? A Mathematical Adventure 2nd Edition: Transnational College of Lex: 9780964350434: Amazon.com: Books

You get a lot more mileage out of something like that than the crap they have in schools. But teachers can't do all that.

We need to reform education. Then I would believe people really want to teach people to fish.

I agree with you that we need to reform education. I don't have the answers, though. I got a terrific education from our public school system. Lived in a blue-collar community in suburban Chicago. My parents weren't involved at all with my education or with the school. I think I had great teachers. While my counselors were disappointed I didn't plan to go to college, they still fast-tracked me with the classes I'd need to earn a living after high school. I was involved in a work program my junior and senior years where I got out of school at 1 PM in the afternoon and worked as a secretary for a company that worked with the school to do just that...give kids jobs while in high school.

We don't do that now -- I don't think. Those who don't go to college are ill-prepared by their education to live their lives. That's a crying shame, in my opinion. What's credit?? How important is my credit score?? How do you balance a checkbook?? Some consumer contract law. Learn a trade. Etc. Etc. Everyone is not college material. Everyone doesn't want to go to college. Why do we treat every kid like we're somehow cheating them if we don't get them in college? We aren't. 68% of high school graduates go to college. The others? They are ill-prepared for real life. Failure.

Teaching is a skill and an artform, in my opinion. There's more to teaching than just knowing the information. It's creativity. It's enthusiasm. Every teacher in our schools should have a little Tony Robbins in them. But they don't. And "they" don't look for that. Go through the motions...get your degree...get a job.

There's a lot that should be different. I don't have the answers. But I know that simply throwing money at the problem isn't the answer. We've tried that.
 
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