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Thread: Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out?

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you asked be if rights are not secure, then no rights are secure, no structure of a government..its anarchy.

    when dictatorship, is in power there is a structure, order, rights of the general population may not be secure from government, but they are from other people.
    You missed the point, which is that rights only exist to the extent that they are secured. Nature does not bestow anything on anyone, it is us through our social contract that makes our rights reality.

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    You missed the point, which is that rights only exist to the extent that they are secured. Nature does not bestow anything on anyone, it is us through our social contract that makes our rights reality.
    Totally agree.

    One viewpoint is that the hypothetical person alone has al the rights while the other view is he has none except what he can build for himself.

    If one wants to look at it philosophical then both ideas are self evident and it's up to the reader to decide where to land.

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you are lost when it comes to what he said.

    he is saying even an animal understands the right to defense........meaning any animal, will fight if backed into a corner.... its in there nature.
    You are confusing a physical ability with a right. They are not the same.
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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    You missed the point, which is that rights only exist to the extent that they are secured. Nature does not bestow anything on anyone, it is us through our social contract that makes our rights reality.

    rights are always exist, rights are being suppressed in many areas of the world.

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You are confusing a physical ability with a right. They are not the same.
    self preservation, defense is a natural function for man or beast.

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    self preservation, defense is a natural function for man or beast.
    That is what I and others here have been saying. Its not a right at all but merely a physical function or ability.
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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is what I and others here have been saying. Its not a right at all but merely a physical function or ability.

    no its in human nature to protect one's self.

    a 100 lb girl, being rapped by the 300lb man, is not going to have the ability to stop him [she knows that], however she was going to use her natural defense to kick, scream scratch, and bite, to try to stop the attacker any way.

    natural rights come from nature.

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no its in human nature to protect one's self.

    a 100 lb girl, being rapped by the 300lb man, is not going to have the ability to stop him [she knows that], however she was going to use her natural defense to kick, scream scratch, and bite, to try to stop the attacker any way.

    natural rights come from nature.
    You just said that animals feel the same thing so how is this now human nature?

    and what does that have to do with the concept of natural rights?
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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You just said that animals feel the same thing so how is this now human nature?

    and what does that have to do with the concept of natural rights?
    i pointed out rights come from nature.....clvi rights / civil privileges come from government

    does speech, movement, defense, assembly with others [natural to the body], .........require the existence of government for those things to take place?..no.. they existed before the first government was ever formed.

    we only formed government to secure these natural rights, from those who would seek to suppress them.

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i pointed out rights come from nature.....clvi rights / civil privileges come from government

    does speech, movement, defense, assembly with others [natural to the body], .........require the existence of government for those things to take place?..no.. they existed before the first government was ever formed.

    we only formed government to secure these natural rights, from those who would seek to suppress them.
    NO. You cite physical abilities that beings have - be they humans or animals - and then you extrapolate rights from the existence of those abilities.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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