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Thread: Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out?

  1. #501
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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Nawww the Progressive movement has simply refined the firing data. Born in an age of colonialism, intense nationalism, with a heaping helping of institutional racism, while our nation was rising to World Power status, the world bled through two huge wars. The Progressive movement has changed as conditions changed. That some see 'radicals' in the bushes might be more due to a severe Observer-target angle than anything else.
    Can you name those progressives who have changed ? You can't. The radical internationalist left from the fringe needed a label to hide behind and after they dirtied the liberal label they moved over to the progressive movement and hijacked the progressive movement.

    The progressive movement wasn't a Democrat or Republican movement. During the Progressive era there were as many progressives in the Democrat party as there were in the Republican party.

    A true progressive is a nationalist socialist. Those progressives of today are something else, mostly Marxist, radical leftist, internationalist socialist, etc.

    Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Dillingham, Bellamy were all progressives, some were Democrats some were Republicans but all were racist. You can't call yourself a progressive unless you believe that northern Europeans are superior to other ethnicities and races.

    It's a possibility that the progressives of today are still closet racist since they believe that certain minorities are inferior and can't compete in society and need special privileges and protections to compete in society.

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They always had rights.
    Tell me, what is the difference between rights you have but can not exercise and rights you do not have?

    You are confusing protection of rights with the existence of rights.
    No, you are playing a game of semantics.

  3. #503
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    Re: Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I think that letting states decide things like slavery is just as bad as forcing people who don't want to be around each other to live together.

    It's possible to have a nation of various people from different ethnic and cultural backgrounds if the leadership of the nation placed emphasis on things like truthfulness, respect for others, cleanliness, discipline, knowledge and mercy. That's the big problem. First and foremost we have become a nation of liars. And it starts with the leadership. In politics, lying has become an art form. Where deceit dwells, hubris becomes prominent. And from hubris, people start to value the wrong qualities in men. We worship and put people on pedestals who are violent, thieves, arrogant, devoid of knowledge, addicted to various forms of vice, cruel, and constantly engaged in cheating. That's what is tearing this country, and indeed the world down.
    It really is unfortunate that whenever States rights are brought up that old nag slavery is as well. I understand that is what we've been conditioned to believe, the re-education of the population and the hagiography of that SOB every one thinks was so great, but no one supports slavery, no one wants it to make a come back , no one, well, no one in their right mind thinks it acceptable. I'm not saying that you're putting that forth, your comment wasn't in that context, just a knee-jerk reaction on my part to seeing that word in the discussion. A far superior discussion, one that doesn't have the emotional baggage and reinterpretation of timely events which seem never to be brought up is the Kentucky & Virginia Resolutions in response to the Alien & Sedition Acts. Now that's a conversation worth having, but I digress...

    Of course, people of different backgrounds, ethnicity, or behavior can live together, they simply need to live together. They need to mind their own business. See, I don't give a fig if someone is gay or not. I don't give a fig whether someone wants to light up a joint, hell, if the wife wasn't around I might take a toke or two myself, I don't want to make a widespread blanket for denying a woman the ability to have an abortion -- It's wrong as hell, I'll never say otherwise, it is a down right abomination but if it's not in my community than it is none of my business. My argument on all these issues however, is that my opinion, as it pertains to you, where you live, how you live, is irrelevant. I shouldn't have a say in the matter so long as I am not in your realm of influence. Meaning the State and county level is where these decisions should be made based on the issue at hand.

    Legally, any and all rights a heterosexual couple enjoy so too should a homosexual couple as it relates to the relationship of the government. Meaning hereditary rights, next of kin, all of it should be across the board equal. My personal opinion is that the government should not be the moral decider of such things in the first place. They should merely have a custodial role in regards to marital contracts. Holding on file said contracts and fulfill the role of arbiter in dispute and divorce.

    Now, with that being said, and as I'll reiterate my belief that every single person in this country race, gender, creed, or behavior should be equal in the eyes of the law, the government, in how they interact with one another -- I do not believe that that translates to how we must interact with one another. The government has gone too far in its encroachment on businesses. I myself love money. I love it. Can't live without it. As such I myself welcome one and all to participate in trading with me. Come, Come, Welcome, Welcome!!! Please, buy my goods, please give me money. Thank you and good day!. However.... It is not the government's place to decide for me whom I shall do business with. It is not the government's place to decide who I shall enter contract with, what the terms may be, the conditions of my association. If you are gay, a woman, black, latino, asian, what have you -- please shop at my store! If another doesn't want your business, that's their business and it is bad for business. But it should be their right to make poor business decisions.

    As it concerns Mary Jane and abortion. These should be decided in my opinion at the County level of government. While I begrudgingly hold the view that a woman who wants to kill her unborn should under Federal and even State jurisdiction be afforded the ability to do so, I for one don't believe it should be made easy nor do I believe that the practice should be allowed where a community at large believes it is such an abomination (and it is) that they don't want it in their town and surrounding community.

    As for the old girl Mary, well that to me is no different than alcohol. As such if a county wants it, light'em up. If it don't, than a dry county it is. Simple.


    Mayor Daley, the quintessential crook of a politician. Everyone knew it, no one could prove it. He's the perfect example. Everyone expects politicians to be crooked. What they demand however is a certain level of competence. Daley for all his faults was competent for the most part and that's why he ruled this city and could have gone on ruling this city for as long as he desired. The rest of the politicians share in his crookedness, they may even have his invincibility -- Obama surely seems to have this down -- but what they don't have, and Obama certainly doesn't have, is his level of competence.

    That's what has been lacking from American government for far too long a time. Competence. Return this to our government and the people will let the den of thieves do as they'd like.
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

  4. #504
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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I am attempting to do just that. Lets discuss the issue. Does your argument hinge the word UNALIENABLE as opposed to the word INALIENABLE and do you ascribe a different meaning to one over the other? Or do you accept the undeniable historical evidence from Jefferson himself that the two terms can be used interchangeably without changing the meaning?

    And so I understand this idea you have put forth that rights cannot be taken away - is it your contention that the right to keep and bear arms is one of those inalienable rights that cannot be taken away.
    anything you wish to discuss with me, i am happy to discuss, however please make a thread in the constitution section so it can be discussed, instead of the starting anything new in the *breaking news* section.

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    And what happens when those rights are not secured?
    since i stated government...


    "ANARCHY"

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the constitution is a limiting document, limiting the power of government, it does not limit people at all.......the bill of rights, are not rights.........they are declaratory and restrictive clauses placed on government, that they shall not violate the rights of the people...rights are "recognized" by the constitution, they are not granted by the constitution.

    the constitution, again does not limit the people AT ALL.............why would anyone write a document to limit themselves.
    OK. Let's start by looking at your assertion that the constitution limits government not people. It will be helpful to step back a bit and look at what government is and the types of problems it was created to solve.

    You have previously stated that people have to right to do as they please as long as it does not infringe on the rights of another. If we assume this to be true we are immediately confronted with two problems:

    1. Someone has to determine what activities infringe on the rights of others
    2. In order for the assertion to be meaningful, a mechanism for prohibiting persons from engaging in such activity must be devised.

    In order to solve these two problems, men have created an abstraction called government. The role of that abstraction is to provide a mechanism by which it can be determined exactly what activities a person has the right to engage in and to provide a mechanism for prohibiting persons from engaging in activity that infringes on the rights of others. In the case of the Constitution this is done by enumerating a legislative and a judicial branch to determine exactly which activities do and do not infringe on the rights of others. The Constitution also enumerates an executive branch that protects persons when they are engaged in activity that is permitted and prohibits persons from engaging in activity that is not permitted.

    Government ultimately consists of people who weld various types of power. The people who wrote the Constitution implicitly and/or explicitly specified the types of power that persons who occupy positions in the various branches of will have. When it does so, it limits the type of power that such persons will have. This is one way in which the people who wrote the Constitution limit people, by limiting the power of people who occupy positions in the government itself.

    Not only that, but when you engage in an activity that the government, through it's agents, determines is activity that interferes with the rights of others, your right to engage in that activity is taken away. In the case of slavery that's exactly what happened. At one point government determined that people had the right to own slaves. But at a certain point government determined that they cannot do so in the United States. How was this done? Through the process of amending the Constitution which prohibited the activity and through an executive branch that could enforce compliance. Thus through these two means, the right of persons to practice slavery was taken away. Therefore the persons who wrote, amended, interpreted, and enforced the Constitution took away the rights of individuals to practice slavery in the US.

    Therefore, again, it is not incorrect to say that the rights came from the persons who wrote the Constitution.

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    show me where in the Constitution government has power over the people to direct there actions or restrict them.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    what does this have to do with anything, the 14th amendment is aimed squarely at government, not the people, the amendment states" "no state shall"..

    no where in the constitutions is the federal government given authority over the life's of the people
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the constitution is aimed at government, not the people, for a person to own a slave is a CRIME, for a government to sanction slavery is a constitutional violation..
    Let's look at the text of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution

    Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
    Note that no where does it say that state governments shall make no law prohibiting slavery. The constitution in this case clearly says that slavery cannot be practiced. This applies to individuals as well as governments. It is not a restriction to merely governments.

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    Re: Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    A new Pew Research survey seems to indicate that millenials, the age group from 18 to 33, tend to favor gay rights and marijuana legalization. and tend to vote for Democrats. I think it is highly likely that Democrats have embraced these two issues to drive a stake in the heart of the Republican party. Recall recently how Obama spoke in favor of marijuana legalization and came out in favor of gay rights.

    Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out? - The Week
    The extreme conservatives are losing, but the party will regroup and in the future be a united party like they used to be.
    "Being President doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are"

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    Re: Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    The extreme conservatives are losing, but the party will regroup and in the future be a united party like they used to be.
    One can hope.......

  10. #510
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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    anything you wish to discuss with me, i am happy to discuss, however please make a thread in the constitution section so it can be discussed, instead of the starting anything new in the *breaking news* section.
    What makes you so special that you merit your own special thread? We are discussing a subject already under consideration.

    Does your argument hinge the word UNALIENABLE as opposed to the word INALIENABLE and do you ascribe a different meaning to one over the other? Or do you accept the undeniable historical evidence from Jefferson himself that the two terms can be used interchangeably without changing the meaning?

    And so I understand this idea you have put forth that rights cannot be taken away - is it your contention that the right to keep and bear arms is one of those inalienable rights that cannot be taken away?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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