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Thread: Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out?

  1. #411
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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If this social contract existed than evidence of this contract would need to be presented to a court of law in order for them to enforce it legally. There is no evidence such a contract exists, nor a reason to suggest that such a contract is reasonable to assume is established on our birth or creation.
    All that is needed is that you are here and you broke the law. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous in the extreme not to mention engaging in the worst sort of intellectual fraud and denial of simply reality.

    I really do not care what you call it be it the social contract, the law, the rules of the game or a gazelle.
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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is a rather unimportant matter to where this conversion is headed. You will need to tell me why it is reasonable to assume the state establishes the rights of man. I believe I have said more than enough to explain myself, but you have yet to explain how it is logical to argue that rights come from an organization of force.
    Before I can even consider that I have to know what these "rights of man" are and where are they found?
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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    You have it backwards. Reason led to the Constitution which is the social contract we run our nation by.
    The Constitution is a treaty. It has nothing to do with the concept of a social contract.

    There are no rights that nature "grants". You can do what you will without any social contract (unless someone objects and kills you) but that doesn't make that a "right" granted by "nature"
    Being able to act aggressively towards someone is simply a matter of fact that happens with or without government. Protection of rights is simply a matter of men coming together and recognizing their capabilities.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-10-14 at 06:56 PM.

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    All that is needed is that you are here and you broke the law. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous in the extreme not to mention engaging in the worst sort of intellectual fraud and denial of simply reality.

    I really do not care what you call it be it the social contract, the law, the rules of the game or a gazelle.
    Law needs justification and it is entirely erroneous to claim that this justification for the law is found in the law itself, which is essentially what your argument is mounted on. The government declares a right, and regardless of this right being declared aggressive or non-aggressive in nature your argument would declare that the right is true and just and all objections to it are forfeit. Civil disobedience in your world could not possibly have justification as the source of the laws justification is not the people, but the law itself. Your argument is really no different than saying the king is our rightful ruler and us his rightful servants and slaves because he ruled it as such.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-10-14 at 06:57 PM.

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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    a right, meaning one recognized for all citizens as a whole, cannot be restricted.

    however a right of a single individual can be redistricted based if a violation of the law took place by that individual.
    I disagree. The constitution, through the process of amendment, can restrict the rights of all citizens as a whole. Therefore it is not incorrect to state that the rights come from the persons who write the constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you have many many rights, you have liberty to do as you please.......AS LONG AS......that liberty does not violate the rights of other people, or threaten the health and saftey of the public.
    Your ability to do as you please is restricted by two things:

    (1) The resources you have at your disposal

    (2) Others with the ability to restrict you and who desire to exercise that capability

    Those persons with the power to write laws that are enforceable from a practical point of view have the ability to not only restrict your rights individually, but the rights of the citizens taken as a whole. For example, when the constitution was written, the citizens of the United States had the right to own slaves. As a matter of fact, men like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson freely exercised that right. However, because the constitution provided for a government that cold restrict that right, at a certain point, persons with the power to write the constitution, through amendment, revoked that right. Therefore no one can successfully argue in a court of law that the constitution gives them the right to own slaves because the constitution explicitly forbids US citizens from doing so, at least in the United States. Because the government has enforced this law through the threat of coercion, the law is obeyed by US citizens. Therefore, it can be correctly said that the rights come from those with the power to write the constitution.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 03-10-14 at 07:01 PM.

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    Re: Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    RINO's are dying out - as can be seen by Rand Paul's victory at the cpac.

    Real conservatism is alive and well.

    These RINO's are NOT - and never were - republicans or conservatives.
    To be honest with you I really don't have a problem so much with conservatism as an ideology. It's the application that gets me.

    Just saying.

  7. #417
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no, because i am equal on par with other human beings, and they have no authority to decide my life liberty or ......pursuit of happiness..which translates into [property].

    notice the founders stated laws of nature "nature's god"........this is subjective to.... to mean, we are part of nature itself.
    Is a higher power really involved then? Or are things they way they are naturally. Or is there no difference?

    Probably doesn't matter really.

    What we have to work with is:
    Belief that some rights are inherent and inalienable.
    Laws which were written to protect those rights.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Is the Republican Party in danger of dying out?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    This seems indicative of the current trend. Millenials feeling themselves entitled to the work of others, raised to think everyone deserves a gold star for effort, that hard work comes second to personal enjoyment, that there are no right answers only personal opinions, that punitive measures consist of the mighty wrath of the "Time Out" -- this being the Democratic Platform, the choice is obvious.

    Gay Rights is a misnomer and marijuana legalization isn't the exclusive providence of the Democrats.

    Getting high and buggery is what matters most? Is what is driving a stake through the heart of the GOP?

    Nah, it's what is driving a stake through the heart of this country.

    Voting on the federal lever for exclusive issues, specifically social issues has shown itself to be, is, and will continue to be catastrophic.

    This goes for the right side of the aisle too. The religious Right is no better in this regard.

    Only until a decentralization takes place allowing States rights to take precedence, to allow people to live the way the want to live, surrounded by people who want to live in the same fashion -- this country will always be divided and will continue its downward spiral.
    Interesting. A couple of questions

    1. Why do you say gay rights is a misnomer?
    2. What exactly is buggery?

    I think you have some valid points here. However, I think your assertion that somehow giving states rights precedence will somehow decrease the divisions in this country is wrong.

    But overall, not bad.

  9. #419
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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I disagree. The constitution, through the process of amendment, can restrict the rights of all citizens as a whole. Therefore it is not incorrect to state that the rights come from the persons who write the constitution.
    the constitution grants no rights, it only recognizes them, the bill of rights are a restriction on government that it cannot make any laws which violate the rights of the people, [this from reading the preamble to the bill of rights]....the government has never created a right.



    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Your ability to do as you please is restricted by two things:

    (1) The resources you have at your disposal

    (2) Others with the ability to restrict you and who desire to exercise that capability

    Those persons with the power to write laws that are enforceable from a practical point of view have the ability to not only restrict your rights individually, but the rights of the citizens taken as a whole. For example, when the constitution was written, the citizens of the United States had the right to own slaves. As a matter of fact, men like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson freely exercised that right. However, because the constitution provided for a government that cold restrict that right, at a certain point, persons with the power to write the constitution, through amendment, revoked that right. Therefore no one can successfully argue in a court of law that the constitution gives them the right to own slaves because the constitution explicitly forbids US citizens from doing so, at least in the United States. Because the government has enforced this law through the threat of coercion, the law is obeyed by US citizens. Therefore, it can be correctly said that the rights come from those with the power to write the constitution.

    resources of coarse limit your ability to do things, .. but that is not a restriction, place on you by government....that is your own affair.

    if other people restrict your rights..... that is a crime......if government restricts your rights, and you have not preformed an unlawful action....that is a rights violation.

    government has no authority to act on you, using force or coercion, if you have not violated the rights of another, or cause a heath or saftey concern......why, because who is the victim?

    government cannot act without a victim.

  10. #420
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    Re: The Reason Democrats Are Backing Gay Rights and Marijuana Legalization

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) still got nothing huh? let us know when you do
    For some reason you keep responding to nothing. That tells me there must be something there.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    2.) nope never even hinted at anything thats the part you made up in your head
    Yes you did, you tried to brush aside Karl Rove as a nutcase.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    3.) i agree it wasnt hard to understand that what you were posting had nothing to do with what i said, im glad you figured that mistake out.
    You are wrong. What I posted had everything to do with what you said.

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