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Thread: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    If the American people want the rest of the world to screw off than the administration is listening to the American people.

    Is that not democracy?
    Call it whatever you want, the bottom line remains the same. How many times do I have to repeat the same post?

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    The United States is presently at an usual confluence of events. We have an incompetent bumbling administration combined with the fact that the American people want the rest of the world to screw off. Americans are tired of endless wars for nothing, tired of seeing our young men die in foreign countries for aholes that don't even want us there, tired of giving away money for nothing. We want to bring our people home, the war is over.

    If Obama's incompetent bumbling and lack of knowledge keep us out of this, the American people will rightfully cheer the result.
    I dont think military aid or intervention will ever happen-nor should it. However, Putin can't just invade a nation because he feels like it.

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    So you don't like people who have a brain and think about foreign policy, even after the Iraq war was based on false claims that it had WMD's and caused the deaths of thousands of American troops and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi kids.
    lol what? What do you "think about foreign policy"? What publications do you read? Have you read books on the subject?

    lol "think about foreign policy" you're funny
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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    Call it whatever you want, the bottom line remains the same.
    I asked you a question, is that not democracy?

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    So you don't like people who have a brain and think about foreign policy, even after the Iraq war was based on false claims that it had WMD's and caused the deaths of thousands of American troops and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi kids.
    There are people who literally don't give a **** what we do anywhere if it advances "US interests" (which rarely if ever equate to your interests or mine) regardless of who gets hurt or killed along the way, or what gets destroyed or stolen. Literally, these people exist.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I'll never understand the "who are we to _____" crowd. "We" are a nation with global interests, and when you have interests somewhere, you have a stake in what happens there. Whether the US gets involved or not is one thing, but the "who are we to" argument isn't a good one.
    I would say that the US has no strong vital interests in the Ukraine. However, Russia certainly has such interests. As such, we should have left well enough alone there.

    It would be different if Putin where overthrowing the government in Mexico and putting Russian MIGs, missiles, and troops there. Then I would be saying, get him the hell out of there, no matter what the cost, EVEN IF IT MEANT A WAR WITH RUSSIA. But that's not the case here.

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    There are people who literally don't give a **** what we do anywhere if it advances "US interests" (which rarely if ever equate to your interests or mine) regardless of who gets hurt or killed along the way, or what gets destroyed or stolen. Literally, these people exist.
    Yes, these people are most likely paid to spread lies on the Internet.

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I agree with this, except for the last part-I think Ukraine should figure it out first. I dont think Russia violating the territorial integrity and national sovereignty of Ukraine is the right move.
    That's why I said that Russia should immediately withdraw its forces from Ukraina (which in case those who are reading this thinks it's a typo, is a rough English pronunciation in Ukrainian for Ukraine). I doubt that Ukraina is in a state to oversee regional referendums given the highly violent and toxic atmosphere there. This reminds of the Weimar Republic when there were mass uprisings by both the left and the right, when there was pitched street battles between thugs, when voter intimidation, propaganda, hate, and politicking was the norm. There were armed paramilitaries by both (well, many) sides, armed groups carried out hundreds of shootings and assassinations. The exact situation in Ukraina right now.
    It would be best for an unbiased international organization to oversee a referendum but sadly there's no suitable organization now.
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I would say that the US has no strong vital interests in the Ukraine. However, Russia certainly has such interests. As such, we should have left well enough alone there.

    It would be different if Putin where overthrowing the government in Mexico and putting Russian MIGs, missiles, and troops there. Then I would be saying, get him the hell out of there, no matter what the cost, EVEN IF IT MEANT A WAR WITH RUSSIA. But that's not the case here.
    That's fine but "who are we to interfere?" Is such a silly question. The US has interests all over the world. Every plan of action needs to adopt a cost benefit analysis, but to just not do it because of some narrative? Horrible.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    It is worrying, but here are some considerations that leaves me divided:
    1) People have the right to self-determination. If the people of Crimea wants to become part of Russia, then they have a right to do it. It's the business of the US to intervene
    2) However, a fair referendum would be highly unlikely if not impossible. Although the results would be undoubtedly for being annexed, the fact that there's Russian troops and Ukrainian paramilitaries (both pro and anti-Russian) makes the atmosphere not fit for a fair referendum. Regardless of whether the result would have been fair or not, the process is what's important.
    3) The fact that Russia has moved its military into action into Ukraina makes it a very big issue.
    4) The fact that land is being annexed by a country much noted for its human rights abuse and repression along with unsavory geopolitical aspirations makes annexation, even if it's justified, makes it objectionable.

    So Russian military action and its political climate that makes annexation so unsavory even if it's justified. A solution would be for Russia to withdraw its forces from Ukraina and have the UN (ineffective it is) or some other unbiased (thinking back, the UN doesn't apply here does it?) international organization oversee and ensure that a fair referendum happens.
    5) The fact that the US was involved for a very long time creating, facilitating, very much supporting what transpired late last year, legitimizes Russia's actions.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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