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Thread: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Nothing is over, in fact its going to get more intense. Obama has already threatened to "isolate" Russia, but this does not appear to be sufficient to stop Russia. This conflict is about get worse.

    In the mean time, the flag of the Russian Empire (end of XIX c) hangs on Russian BTR in Crimea.



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    ...and this video was taken on the Krasnodar-Novorosiysk road - which is in Russia.
    They might eventually head to Crimea, but it was not taken in Crimea.

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Sounds like they aren't happy with Russia, doesn't it?
    No, sounds like they are Nazis...as "Moskaliv na nozi, moskaliv na nozi!" is a chant used by the Ukrainian neo-Nazis/neo-Banderovtsy.



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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I'm not so sure what you mean by intense. I will say this, if Russia wants to take Crimea right now, there's nothing practical that can be done to stop them. In terms of pure power concepts, only the US could stop them militarily, and that would mean nuclear war if we tried to do it, so that's not going to happen.
    Check out Vice TV, thats what I mean by intense.

    Last edited by US Conservative; 03-07-14 at 08:51 PM.

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I'll never understand the "who are we to _____" crowd. "We" are a nation with global interests, and when you have interests somewhere, you have a stake in what happens there. Whether the US gets involved or not is one thing, but the "who are we to" argument isn't a good one.
    So you don't like people who have a brain and think about foreign policy, even after the Iraq war was based on false claims that it had WMD's and caused the deaths of thousands of American troops and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi kids.

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea

    By STEVEN LEE MYERS, DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and RICK GLADSTONEMARCH 7, 2014

    MOSCOW Russia signaled for the first time on Friday that it was prepared to annex Crimea, significantly intensifying its confrontation with the West over the political crisis in Ukraine and threatening to undermine a system of respect for national boundaries that has helped keep the peace in Europe and elsewhere for decades.

    Leaders of both houses of Russias Parliament said that they would support a vote by Crimeans to break away from Ukraine and become a region of the Russian Federation, ignoring sanctions threats and warnings from the United States and other countries that a vote for secession would violate Ukraines constitution and international law.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/wo...idmherszenhorn
    It is worrying, but here are some considerations that leaves me divided:
    1) People have the right to self-determination. If the people of Crimea wants to become part of Russia, then they have a right to do it. It's the business of the US to intervene
    2) However, a fair referendum would be highly unlikely if not impossible. Although the results would be undoubtedly for being annexed, the fact that there's Russian troops and Ukrainian paramilitaries (both pro and anti-Russian) makes the atmosphere not fit for a fair referendum. Regardless of whether the result would have been fair or not, the process is what's important.
    3) The fact that Russia has moved its military into action into Ukraina makes it a very big issue.
    4) The fact that land is being annexed by a country much noted for its human rights abuse and repression along with unsavory geopolitical aspirations makes annexation, even if it's justified, makes it objectionable.

    So Russian military action and its political climate that makes annexation so unsavory even if it's justified. A solution would be for Russia to withdraw its forces from Ukraina and have the UN (ineffective it is) or some other unbiased (thinking back, the UN doesn't apply here does it?) international organization oversee and ensure that a fair referendum happens.
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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    The United States is presently at an usual confluence of events. We have an incompetent bumbling administration combined with the fact that the American people want the rest of the world to screw off. Americans are tired of endless wars for nothing, tired of seeing our young men die in foreign countries for aholes that don't even want us there, tired of giving away money for nothing. We want to bring our people home, the war is over.

    If Obama's incompetent bumbling and lack of knowledge keep us out of this, the American people will rightfully cheer the result.

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    ...and this video was taken on the Krasnodar-Novorosiysk road - which is in Russia.
    They might eventually head to Crimea, but it was not taken in Crimea.


    No, sounds like they are Nazis...as "Moskaliv na nozi, moskaliv na nozi!" is a chant used by the Ukrainian neo-Nazis/neo-Banderovtsy.



    Fallen.
    I'm curious about your stance which you never seemed to have clearly defined. Your authority on this subject is and has been acknowledged but it seems (if I'm not mistaken) that you're straddling a middle ground.
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" - Winston Churchill

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    ...and this video was taken on the Krasnodar-Novorosiysk road - which is in Russia.
    They might eventually head to Crimea, but it was not taken in Crimea.


    No, sounds like they are Nazis...as "Moskaliv na nozi, moskaliv na nozi!" is a chant used by the Ukrainian neo-Nazis/neo-Banderovtsy.



    Fallen.
    They are sporting the flag of the Russian empire as they invade another country. Now refresh my memory-when was the last time Russia was an empire.

    And I believe the term "nazi" is quite derogatory to Russians, its like they had a bad experience once...

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    This is the first indication that Russia wants to illegally annex part of Ukraine?

    Perhaps sending troops into a sovereign nation was really the first...
    We've sent troops into many sovereign nations with far FAR less legitimacy then Putin has.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    It is worrying, but here are some considerations that leaves me divided:
    1) People have the right to self-determination. If the people of Crimea wants to become part of Russia, then they have a right to do it. It's the business of the US to intervene
    2) However, a fair referendum would be highly unlikely if not impossible. Although the results would be undoubtedly for being annexed, the fact that there's Russian troops and Ukrainian paramilitaries (both pro and anti-Russian) makes the atmosphere not fit for a fair referendum. Regardless of whether the result would have been fair or not, the process is what's important.
    3) The fact that Russia has moved its military into action into Ukraina makes it a very big issue.
    4) The fact that land is being annexed by a country much noted for its human rights abuse and repression along with unsavory geopolitical aspirations makes annexation, even if it's justified, makes it objectionable.

    So Russian military action and its political climate that makes annexation so unsavory even if it's justified. A solution would be for Russia to withdraw its forces from Ukraina and have the UN (ineffective it is) or some other unbiased (thinking back, the UN doesn't apply here does it?) international organization oversee and ensure that a fair referendum happens.
    I agree with this, except for the last part-I think Ukraine should figure it out first. I dont think Russia violating the territorial integrity and national sovereignty of Ukraine is the right move.

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    re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    The United States is presently at an usual confluence of events. We have an incompetent bumbling administration combined with the fact that the American people want the rest of the world to screw off.
    If the American people want the rest of the world to screw off than the administration is listening to the American people.

    Is that not democracy?

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