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Thread: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Not so sure the recent elections bolster your argument that the Crimea wouldn't vote for Russia. the semi-autonomous parliament voted that way. The Crimea has voted for the Russian leaning now ousted President.
    "The semi-autonomous parliament voted that way" sounds like the Russian version of democracy at work.

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    'We' are not a nation of global interests. Multinational corporations have global interests.
    Who do you think makes up multinational corporations? Who do you think engages in the economy?

    'We' pay the taxes that fund military involvement around the world.
    Sure. We reap the benefits when they exist, too.

    'We' send our sons and daughters into 'harm's way' to bolster 'dear friends and allies' who more often than not share little interest in freedom, democracy, of human rights.
    Or we go ourselves. I didn't got because of freedom, democracy, or human rights. I'm not an idealist.

    Howsomever using your definition 'we' don't have a global interest in the Crimean. Our old world order focus on continuing the containment theory of a by gone era is destructive not constructive.
    Why must it be about containment?

    We bristled at South American countries voting to have a socialist president and helped coups overthrow legitimate governments. Now we bristle at Russia acting to protect it's REGIONAL interest in the Black Sea?
    Right. Because the US is about promoting American interests. It's not about playing fair. Why would any nation want to engage in such a strategy?

    We sacrificed thousands of men to attempt and maintain artificial constructs such as South Korea and Vietnam but now demand the Crimea, never part of the Ukraine until 1955 and even then a semi-autonomous region attached like an afterthought, be considered sacred Ukrainian soil and indivisible?
    lol yes? It's about American interests. That's it.

    All farce and folly... we lack any true 'global interest' in the Crimea. The recent trend of attempting to pull the former Warsaw Pact into a Western circle of influence rather than allow them to be a buffer and trade as they see fit is creating turmoil and global unrest.
    You should alert them of that, then.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Not so sure the recent elections bolster your argument that the Crimea wouldn't vote for Russia. the semi-autonomous parliament voted that way. The Crimea has voted for the Russian leaning now ousted President.
    Yes, its true, the parliament voted for Russia 78-0.

    Of course, this was after armed Russian militia members booted out Ukrainian and Tatar members and gave their "vacated" seats to ethnic Russians. With such "results", its easy to see why the Russians dont want to take chances with a fair election....

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Are the Russians there for humanitarian purposes but have no interest in oil?

    You appear to give to much credit to Barrack Obama's smoke and mirrors abilities, especially in international politics..
    Russia has three bases, a lot of assets to secure and protect. A majority of the people there share Russian culture, language and loyalties. The condemnation of Putin, who performed his task without killing anybody or destroying property is really pathetic. Accusations of nazi tactics and comparisons to Hitler are hogwash and uttered by the pro-war crowd, and meant to demonize Obama while your at it, which is stupid anyway sense he supported and facilitated the protests, has applied sanctions, is moving naval ships, and planes into the region, all of which should make the chicken hawks proud.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    "The semi-autonomous parliament voted that way" sounds like the Russian version of democracy at work.
    If that was the only example, perhaps, but it of course wasn't the only example I gave now is it?

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Who do you think makes up multinational corporations? Who do you think engages in the economy? Sure. We reap the benefits when they exist, too. Or we go ourselves. I didn't got because of freedom, democracy, or human rights. I'm not an idealist. Why must it be about containment? Right. Because the US is about promoting American interests. It's not about playing fair. Why would any nation want to engage in such a strategy? lol yes? It's about American interests. That's it. You should alert them of that, then.
    A very few of 'we' make up the multinationals, and multi-nationals are quick to abandon us, like Halliburton. A lot of 'we' just pay taxes, which we note multinationals play games to avoid a great deal themselves. The economy isn't a sacred place, the economy is as fed by consumers as multinationals. name the benefits? The 'opportunity' to pay whatever a multinational says they should get? Would we have the huge tax burden to support a world wide navy, AF and Army if we didn't constantly go it alone when it comes to 'safeguarding' resources in far flung places?

    Funny a guy who's handle is old world order asks why must it be about containment... that is trying to flip the script. It shouldn't be about CONtainment but for some perverse reason USofA policy has been just that, from attempting to organize the herd of cats that are on Russian's southern Border to pushing missiles and radars into Poland. Russia has told us it isn't about to tolerate this sort of meddling along it's borders. (We damn sure wouldn't tolerate it being reversed as the Cuban missile crisis showed us how upsetting having nukes so close- we had them in Turkey back then)

    We can promote Coke and blue jeans, but fomenting rebellion in other nations is a perversion of the 'shining city on the hill' beacon of democracy. It is head scratching to hear talk about why play fair when we demand others do just that, from trade to human rights.

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Yes, its true, the parliament voted for Russia 78-0. Of course, this was after armed Russian militia members booted out Ukrainian and Tatar members and gave their "vacated" seats to ethnic Russians. With such "results", its easy to see why the Russians dont want to take chances with a fair election....
    So what was the number of vacated seats? But once again that doesn't explain the previous presidential elections being so far in the Russian leaning president's favor. Using only one pin point of data is how false premises are built and how huge blunders are made.

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Not worth what, though, that's the question. There's literally dozens of various options.
    The problem is that there has been far too much talk in the United States about bringing Russia into NATO. The problem with that is that it increases the probability that an armed conflict could break out between Russia and the United States. There is nothing in the Ukraine that is worth a war between the United States and Russia.

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Yes, its true, the parliament voted for Russia 78-0.

    Of course, this was after armed Russian militia members booted out Ukrainian and Tatar members and gave their "vacated" seats to ethnic Russians. With such "results", its easy to see why the Russians dont want to take chances with a fair election....
    Is that any different than what happened in Kiev? Armed fascist demonstrators (trained and equipped by U.S. NGO's supposedly doing charitable work) overpowered police and security; the elected government resigned, the President fled because of growing lack of cooperation from leaders of his own security forces (indicating either a possible military coup in the works, or that they would allow him to fall to the mob like happened to one of the governors; the new parliament declares it has established a "legitimate" government (with no representation from Crimea or the eastern provinces, and even drafts a law as its first order of business making Ukrainian the ONLY language...ensuring a further divide; the U.S. and E.U. rush to recognize the new government...bearing their fingerprints; and yet, for some reason, it's a big deal when Russia does some arm-twisting to secure their hold on Crimea....read some history folks! The whole point of Russia since it was first created as an empire centuries ago was to first - drive out the Tatars who ruled most of the Russian territories, and drive south to establish a year-round sea port on the Mediterranean.

    The only reason why Ukraine has possession of Crimea right now is because of border-shifting by a Soviet Government (Kruschev) in the 1950's...at a time when the Soviet state was all-powerful, and republics of the Soviet Union were republics in name only! How the Neocons and financial oligarchs, and the tagalong gang in the Whitehouse and European capitals, were stupid enough to think they could just wedge Ukraine in its entirety from Russia is the only mystery left to solve! If they didn't realize this one would be a fight that Putin would wage war over, then they haven't learned anything from all of the other invasions and failed states they have created in recent years! Then again, these are people who don't put their own lives at risk, or even their own money at risk. Instead, they raid federal treasuries for their warmaking aspirations and profit from them through money-lending and the corporations they own which provide services for warmaking.

    The American people signaled that too many of them would not stand for the same bull**** song&dance when Kerry trotted it out for a Syrian Invasion last year; and I hope more and more people ignore the Neocon propaganda spewed out on MSM on this issue also. If you want a simple breakdown it goes like this: Russia, one of the few, smaller hegemons that is largely independent of U.S. globalized capitalism, has drawn a line in the sand and will threaten all out war to keep parts of the Ukraine by force, if they lose the nation to a western-led "Orange Revolution" government. The U.S. & E.U., acting on behalf of the BORG that runs international banking and business interests, is trying to accomplish what they failed to do 10 years ago, by installing a western-friendly, E.U. and NATO member government in the Ukraine.

    The only question left to be answered is: are they psychopathic enough to roll the dice and risk a full out nuclear war with Russia? Considering what disaster capitalists have been capable of so far...I'd say the question is still out there waiting to be answered!
    Why should our nastiness be the baggage of an apish past and our kindness uniquely human? Why should we not seek continuity with other animals for our "noble" traits as well?
    Stephen J. Gould

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    A very few of 'we' make up the multinationals, and multi-nationals are quick to abandon us, like Halliburton.
    Don't they have employees? Employees who buy things? Buy things from companies that have employees? Don't they have shareholders?

    A lot of 'we' just pay taxes, which we note multinationals play games to avoid a great deal themselves. The economy isn't a sacred place, the economy is as fed by consumers as multinationals. name the benefits? The 'opportunity' to pay whatever a multinational says they should get? Would we have the huge tax burden to support a world wide navy, AF and Army if we didn't constantly go it alone when it comes to 'safeguarding' resources in far flung places?
    What did you have for dinner last night? How much did it cost?

    Funny a guy who's handle is old world order asks why must it be about containment... that is trying to flip the script.
    You're the one that brought it up.

    It shouldn't be about CONtainment but for some perverse reason USofA policy has been just that, from attempting to organize the herd of cats that are on Russian's southern Border to pushing missiles and radars into Poland. Russia has told us it isn't about to tolerate this sort of meddling along it's borders. (We damn sure wouldn't tolerate it being reversed as the Cuban missile crisis showed us how upsetting having nukes so close- we had them in Turkey back then)
    No, we wouldn't. But it's about American interests, not playing fair.

    We can promote Coke and blue jeans, but fomenting rebellion in other nations is a perversion of the 'shining city on the hill' beacon of democracy. It is head scratching to hear talk about why play fair when we demand others do just that, from trade to human rights.
    Because it's in the pursuit of American interests. That's the point. All's fair in love and war, means something. Not "all's fair in love and war except for like when you talk about trade and human rights"- everything. All.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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