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Thread: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Hype.

    All the Russian parliament said (according to the OP link) is that they would recognize and accept the Crimea as part of Russia IF the latter votes to join the former in it's referendum.

    And this nonsense about 'the Crimea leaving the Ukraine without Kiev's say so is against the constitution' is ridiculous.
    If a state/province/territory votes to leave a country, they should be able to leave...period. So under this stupid constitution, if 100% of Crimeans voted to leave the Ukraine, they would not be allowed unless Kiev says 'okay'? That is exceedingly repressive.

    I have ZERO problem with the Crimea leaving to join Russia so long as the referendum is fair.


    This story has been SO hyped...it once again shows just how stupid/ignorant most 'journalists' really are...or how desperate for copy their editors are.

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You're right, they did. When they felt their backs were up against the wall due to oil import restrictions, they responded by aligning themselves with Germany and attacking the U.S. at Pearl Harbor, HI. Could Russia make a similar move and their economy is destabilized due to crippling economic sanctions initiated by the West (U.S.) and significant loses in oil revenue from decreased exports to the EU?

    My answer: Y'all better hold on to your butts. This Ukrainian situation could go sideways real fast.
    You better hold yours then too! So, why would we risk such a thing, just to protect the interests of some of the Ukrainians.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Wow!

    Look, I can accept that you disagree with U.S. intervention around the world because it sometimes leads to a negative impression of the U.S. from some foreign countries, but wanting our foreign policies to fail is so anti-American. You may as well go join Edward Snowden wherever he is.

    I'll grant you that at times our government (led by the CIA) does things that in the long run turn on us, i.e., siding w/Saddam in the 70's until he rose to power then we turned on him, arming the Afghan rebels and making a war hero out of UBL only to take him out two decades later, working with the Pakistan government/intelligence only to start killing Pakistani citizens w/drone strikes (some of whom deserved it for siding w/Al-Qaeda and the Taliban). I'll grant you that all of these interventionist acts and more have come back to bite us in the butt, but I'd never want our foreign policies to fail. That's just so unpatriotic. I just want our policy makers to be smarter about the things they do.
    If its bad foreign policy, you wouldn't want it to fail! Ok, we'll I think that's unpatriotic.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    This might offer up some introspection. Upon the Situation.


    Russia sticks to its demands in Ukraine crisis.....

    Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Saturday the new Ukrainian government should stick to an agreement signed by the ousted president, signaling no change in Moscow's position over the Crimea crisis.

    "This document is not being adhered to in terms of the obligations which these people undertook," Lavrov told a news conference in Moscow.

    Lavrov said Moscow was ready for dialogue but accused the government in Kiev of taking orders from people he described as extremists and denied Moscow had any direct role in the crisis in Ukraine's Crimea peninsula.

    "The interim government... is not independent. It depends, unfortunately, on radical nationalists who carried out an armed coup," Lavrov said.....snip~

    Russia sticks to its demands in Ukraine crisis

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...post1063010085

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean
    This is the first indication that Russia wants to illegally annex part of Ukraine?

    Perhaps sending troops into a sovereign nation was really the first...
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    We've sent troops into many sovereign nations with far FAR less legitimacy then Putin has.
    So true...

    Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Cuba, Kosevo and Iraq just to name a few and perhaps some of the worst global interventionist projects in U.S. history, IMO.

    All share a common theme: to stop dictatorship (under the guise of halting the spread of Communism).

    Question: Did it work? And is the U.S. better off for it today?

    Some would say yes, but sometimes I wonder. I mean, if you stop the dictator from being imposed on a nation's people and replace it with democracy, shouldn't foreign nations allow self-rule assuming the people now have a voice through their vote and, thus, the power to remove a would-be dictator from power? The only time they don't is when democracy breaks down through political corruption. And I suppose that's what the world (NATO) has to figure out where this Ukrainian crisis is concerned.

    Just things that make you go, "Hmmmmm.....???"
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    This might offer up some introspection. Upon the Situation.


    Russia sticks to its demands in Ukraine crisis.....

    Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Saturday the new Ukrainian government should stick to an agreement signed by the ousted president, signaling no change in Moscow's position over the Crimea crisis.

    "This document is not being adhered to in terms of the obligations which these people undertook," Lavrov told a news conference in Moscow.

    Lavrov said Moscow was ready for dialogue but accused the government in Kiev of taking orders from people he described as extremists and denied Moscow had any direct role in the crisis in Ukraine's Crimea peninsula.

    "The interim government... is not independent. It depends, unfortunately, on radical nationalists who carried out an armed coup," Lavrov said.....snip~

    Russia sticks to its demands in Ukraine crisis

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...post1063010085
    Morning buddy. I believe Lavrov is correct in his assessment of the illegitimacy of the new Ukrainian government and yet signaled that Russia even so would engage in dialogue! That's no small thing.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I'll never understand the "who are we to _____" crowd. "We" are a nation with global interests, and when you have interests somewhere, you have a stake in what happens there. Whether the US gets involved or not is one thing, but the "who are we to" argument isn't a good one.
    'We' are not a nation of global interests. Multinational corporations have global interests.
    'We' pay the taxes that fund military involvement around the world.
    'We' send our sons and daughters into 'harm's way' to bolster 'dear friends and allies' who more often than not share little interest in freedom, democracy, of human rights.

    Howsomever using your definition 'we' don't have a global interest in the Crimean. Our old world order focus on continuing the containment theory of a by gone era is destructive not constructive.

    We bristled at South American countries voting to have a socialist president and helped coups overthrow legitimate governments. Now we bristle at Russia acting to protect it's REGIONAL interest in the Black Sea?

    We sacrificed thousands of men to attempt and maintain artificial constructs such as South Korea and Vietnam but now demand the Crimea, never part of the Ukraine until 1955 and even then a semi-autonomous region attached like an afterthought, be considered sacred Ukrainian soil and indivisible?

    All farce and folly... we lack any true 'global interest' in the Crimea. The recent trend of attempting to pull the former Warsaw Pact into a Western circle of influence rather than allow them to be a buffer and trade as they see fit is creating turmoil and global unrest.

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Hype.

    All the Russian parliament said (according to the OP link) is that they would recognize and accept the Crimea as part of Russia IF the latter votes to join the former in it's referendum.

    And this nonsense about 'the Crimea leaving the Ukraine without Kiev's say so is against the constitution' is ridiculous.
    If a state/province/territory votes to leave a country, they should be able to leave...period. So under this stupid constitution, if 100% of Crimeans voted to leave the Ukraine, they would not be allowed unless Kiev says 'okay'? That is exceedingly repressive.

    I have ZERO problem with the Crimea leaving to join Russia so long as the referendum is fair.


    This story has been SO hyped...it once again shows just how stupid/ignorant most 'journalists' really are...or how desperate for copy their editors are.
    Or else, they are required to "invent" their copy to fit the guidelines of their "monitors." CIA in the newsrooms.

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Hype.

    All the Russian parliament said (according to the OP link) is that they would recognize and accept the Crimea as part of Russia IF the latter votes to join the former in it's referendum.

    And this nonsense about 'the Crimea leaving the Ukraine without Kiev's say so is against the constitution' is ridiculous.
    If a state/province/territory votes to leave a country, they should be able to leave...period.
    I would not say its all nonsense. As of now, the "referendum" will be supervised by Russian militias and has been "simplified" with guided questions and does not include independence as an option.

    As for states leaving, yes I see your point. At the same time, the Russians have not practiced what they preach. Neither have we (civil war). The Chechens tried to leave Russia - the Russian response was a little different. Likewise, if Karelians (Finns) tried to take Karelia to Finland - such a move would probably be supported by ethnic Russians in the area, Moscow would have a "coniption fit" about Karelia being an intrinsic part of Russia.

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    Re: For First Time, Kremlin Signals It Is Prepared to Annex Crimea [W:153]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    'We' are not a nation of global interests. Multinational corporations have global interests.
    'We' pay the taxes that fund military involvement around the world.
    'We' send our sons and daughters into 'harm's way' to bolster 'dear friends and allies' who more often than not share little interest in freedom, democracy, of human rights.

    Howsomever using your definition 'we' don't have a global interest in the Crimean. Our old world order focus on continuing the containment theory of a by gone era is destructive not constructive.

    We bristled at South American countries voting to have a socialist president and helped coups overthrow legitimate governments. Now we bristle at Russia acting to protect it's REGIONAL interest in the Black Sea?

    We sacrificed thousands of men to attempt and maintain artificial constructs such as South Korea and Vietnam but now demand the Crimea, never part of the Ukraine until 1955 and even then a semi-autonomous region attached like an afterthought, be considered sacred Ukrainian soil and indivisible?

    All farce and folly... we lack any true 'global interest' in the Crimea. The recent trend of attempting to pull the former Warsaw Pact into a Western circle of influence rather than allow them to be a buffer and trade as they see fit is creating turmoil and global unrest.
    Actually, histroically, we have installed dictators friendly to USA Corpoorations to manage the Nations we invade. Does "Banana Republics" ring a bell. What's going on is Corporate hegemony and the underlying impetus that got "Citizens United" through the Supreme Court. If this continues, we're screwed. I'll attach an article that refers this to Breinski's Grand Chessboard. Please read.

    Brzezinski Directing War Strategies from the Shadows

    “From the moment the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the United States has relentlessly pursued a strategy of encircling Russia, just as it has with other perceived enemies like China and Iran. It has brought 12 countries in central Europe, all of them formerly allied with Moscow, into the NATO alliance. US military power is now directly on Russia’s borders…This crisis is in part the result of a zero-sum calculation that has shaped US policy toward Moscow since the Cold War: Any loss for Russia is an American victory, and anything positive that happens to, for, or in Russia is bad for the United States. This is an approach that intensifies confrontation, rather than soothing it.”

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