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Record Support for Gay Marriage[W:162:334]

Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Sigh..

Look, I didn't say anything didn't exist, I just said we don't know what causes it, and you know, unless you can show how I'm wrong in that argument, you can just consider this conversion over. You have grown to bore me.

Were you trying to 'convert me?' Sorry, you've been told it's not a choice! :lamo

Go Freud go!!!
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Well now, sodomy laws were applied to all, not just homosexuals.

Pretty much all laws are applied to all. You could argue that segregation laws and interracial marriage bans were applied to all. That kind of rhetoric cannot get around whether certain laws provide Equal Protection for all. And Lawrence versus Texas settled that issue.

But good red herring. It does not change the fact that homosexual behavior was criminalized a little over a decade ago in a good share of the country.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Were you trying to 'convert me?' Sorry, you've been told it's not a choice! :lamo

Go Freud go!!!

Yup, I made a mistake. So why are you still responding to me? I already explained myself, and even though you have responded to me repeatedly, all you have done is post non-sequiturs, strawmen, or just post random **** that has nothing to do with anything I'm talking about.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

It used to be and IMHO still is a mental disease ,

Good thing your opinion is humble, because it is wrong.

There really was no evidence to classify homosexuality as a mental disorder to begin with and once it became clear that happy and functional gay people exist, there was no argument that homosexuality, in itself, could be considered a mental disorder.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

You sound pretty sure.
Then your contention is that a person's development milieu or their life environment cannot possibly have any effect on whether or not they engage in homosexual practices.
Is that correct?

Based on what I have read, homosexual parents are under a sort of implicit pressure to raise heterosexual kids because of the expectation that homosexual parents raise gay kids. As such, it is kind of one of those situations where there is no way to know how the environment plays out because societal expectations and stigmas could also be influencing the environment the children are raised in. In the few studies that look into the sexuality of children raised in homes with a homosexual parent, they tend to find those people grow up more comfortable exploring their sexuality, which includes trying same sex experiences, but not a significant amount more identify as gay than their heterosexually raised counterparts. Of course that is based on like two or three studies with extremely small sample sizes, so I don't know.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

He ignores that essentially they are unsure on the question at all. There was some studies on hormonal influences, but all them are flawed in one way or another. There was some studies on genetic influences, but all them appear to be influenced by ideology. Lastly, there was studies on environmental influences, but to my understanding there is no sure answer one way or another on the matter. Really, the entire field of study is rather untouched and needs further study and better work done on it to really know the answer.

I don't think they are "flawed", I think they are limited. There is a fundamental difference between the two. Having a small sample size is not a flaw; it is a limiting factor. A flaw implies that a mistake was made or a methodological error occurred. Those occur in research, but that is different than a study which is limited in scope by factors such as selection and sampling. In the case of studies of homosexuality, there is always going to be issues with selection and sampling because the only way for gay people to be identified is if they tell you they are gay which inherently creates a self selection bias and there are so few gay people in the overall population that it is hard to get a representative sample. That does not mean that the research does not tell us anything. It means that a number of studies have to be done when usually a few would suffice, and once there is a sufficient number of studies that show the same result, a general conclusion can be reached. In this case, there is a lot of work that taken as individual works are weak, but given that so many come to similar conclusions it adds up to a consensus. It isn't perfect, but it is far beyond the effort that people who make simple claims like "it is a choice" have made.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

So you are an expert

Report: Pedophilia more common among 'gays'



Report: Pedophilia more common among ‘gays’

While it may be true that many have no interest in sex with adults the fact that they want only to have sex with children of their own sex makes them homosexual as well. Just as there are heterosexual child molesters and pedophiles. They are not mutually exclusive.

Wow. I destroyed this "study" TWICE... once 3 years ago, and once a month ago:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/100878-positive-enhancing-social-benefits-homosexuality-8.html#post1059574261

http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/158260-why-people-anti-gay-w-224-1316-a-14.html#post1062884157
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

That is a sex act...not being gay. Not being sexually attracted to the same gender. It's about dominance and submission.

Let's face it, men try ****ing vacuum hoses, poodles, sheep, just about anything....that is about gratification, not attraction.

That is performing a homosexual act because of your life's situation. Hold that thought.

The point was about the influence of the person's life environment.

It was related to the possible effect on a young female of being raised by 2 gay women and being exposed to their lifestyle throughout her formative years.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Based on what I have read, homosexual parents are under a sort of implicit pressure to raise heterosexual kids because of the expectation that homosexual parents raise gay kids. As such, it is kind of one of those situations where there is no way to know how the environment plays out because societal expectations and stigmas could also be influencing the environment the children are raised in. In the few studies that look into the sexuality of children raised in homes with a homosexual parent, they tend to find those people grow up more comfortable exploring their sexuality,
which includes trying same sex experiences, but not a significant amount more identify as gay than their heterosexually raised counterparts. Of course that is based on like two or three studies with extremely small sample sizes, so I don't know.

Right. That was the point.
I wasn't trying to suggest that children of gay parents are trained to be gay but just like with all child development there is certainly a strong tendency for what they experience in the home to become part of their own life because they think that's how it's supposed to be.
And yes, it can overwhelm how they otherwise would have behaved.
At a minimum ... it would likely be thoroughly confusing.
The amount of exposure to alternatives seems to me to be a critical factor.

Regardless, as you've said, too few studies with too small samples ... and that's not good.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Not for all but it is to some. People can think they are gay or convinced of it.

And Nambla is just as much homosexuals as pedophiles. The ones im speaking of are only attracted to young boys. Its their sex as much as their age that attracts them

Thinking you are gay is not the same as being gay. And it isn't people being told about or indoctrinated into some gay lifestyle that leads to even thinking you are gay. It is mainly going to be wrong assumptions about certain stereotypes.

Wrong. NAMBLA is pedophiles and ephebophiles, not homosexuals. True sexuality is about intimate relationships and attraction that can lead to longterm bonding. Pedophilia is not a sexuality because it is impossible for pedophiles to establish longterm bonds/commitment with those they are attracted to due to the reason for their attraction to them, age. They don't see those children as people, but rather just sexual gratification devices.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage[W:162]

They are the exception no matter how you try to twist it.

So your telling me the vast majority of married people dont have children? If children didnt come from sex marriage never would have been invented. Then again none of us would be here

You are wrong. The reason for marriage is not children. But regardless, those exceptions are still allowed to marry. In fact, in a few states, a requirement for certain couples to get married is that they cannot be able to have children or be passed the main age of childbearing. In fact, in every state there is no upper age limit for marriage. The rule is that most women over 55 cannot bear/have children anymore, the exceptions being those that can and yet every woman over 55 is still allowed to legally marry.

I'm telling you that the number of opposite sex couples that cannot or do not have children during their marriages, even longterm marriages, outnumber the number of same sex couples who would get married. This is especially true given that the number of those married couples who are childless increases every year. And this doesn't even include those who have to use some other method to have children, including IVF, surrogacy, sperm donation, children from previous marriages, or adoption.

And the fact still remains that the vast majority of people would still remain married to the person they chose to marry and be allowed to do so even if they could not have children with that person. This logically proves that the main purpose of marriage has nothing to do with procreation.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Marriage is not a right

Marriage is a right, declared so by the SCOTUS multiple times. Not all rights are listed out specifically in the Constitution (in fact, there is an Amendment that specifically states this fact).

And besides that, equal protection under the law is a right which means anything the state has laws regarding, people have a right to equal protection of those laws or in the application of those laws. This means the state must justify any restrictions shown to treat people differently within the laws by showing how those restrictions further a legitimate state interest.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage[W:162]

exactly. you buy into gay marriage then you must also, by the same argument accept polygamy(and whatever lies beyond). You really find it THAT hard to believe many, many people aren't willing to jump on board with your "hippie commune" future? Changing a society FOUNDED on certain social institutions and simply throwing them into the trash bin isn't just wrong, it's dangerous.

Wrong. All it takes is knowing the laws and how constitutional law, particularly regarding equal protection which is what comes into play here, works. The state can discriminate and can make restrictions on laws based on furthering a state interest. It does so all the time when it comes to age, relationships status (having a legal relationship recognized by the government and not), prior convictions, currently incarcerated, disabilities, and even other things that are blatantly what people would consider no-go for discrimination. The key is the state must show a legitimate state interest is being furthered by such restrictions. Really young people cannot enter into contracts because they lack maturity to really understand what they are agreeing to which can lead to financial issues. People who are blind cannot get a driver's license because the state has an interest in ensuring that only people who can demonstrate an ability to drive safely be allowed to drive. Those convicted of violent crimes/felonies cannot own a gun because they have demonstrated that they have violent tendencies that have a higher potential of leading to others getting harmed if they own a gun. It is all about the ability of the state(s) to show that a restriction within a law furthers a legitimate state interest. They cannot do this when it comes to restrictions based on sex/gender on marriage but have been able to show them in the past with challenges to number restrictions on marriage (and likely can show it in possible later challenges to laws that ban multiple spouses).
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

That is performing a homosexual act because of your life's situation. Hold that thought.

The point was about the influence of the person's life environment.

It was related to the possible effect on a young female of being raised by 2 gay women and being exposed to their lifestyle throughout her formative years.

And it has been shown through research that a person is no more likely to be gay when raised by two men or two women than they are when raised by opposite sex parents.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

I'm sorry you continue to bring it up in the context of gay marriage when it has nothing to do with it.
Ah, you've touched on another way the left is destroying this country. Kids and marriage? Nah, they don't have anything to do with each other. Why have a mother and a father? Any mish mash will do for the left. As long as it means more welfare and votes for them.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

In any event, if a person's life environment can't influence whether they participate in homosexual activities how do you explain the "discrepancy" of homosexual activity in prisons?

Seriously? People in prisons aren't "gay". They are heterosexuals placed in a situation where the only sex available to them is with another man. The vast majority return to heterosexual sex when they get released. It isn't a matter of turning gay. Geeeeeeesh!


A gay person can have straight sex....it doesn't turn them straight. That was tried as a "Cure" for ages.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Oh, I guess it's just your questions that should be answered, not mine. How very liberal of you. Well, you may not be reading my posts at all and just continuing with your agenda, also very liberal of you. So tolerant, you folks on the left are. Well, post me some info about two gay men in a marriage where one of them bares a child, then we will have something to discuss!

Did you get down this far? I am just checking to see if you are reading this at all. Which one is taller, Stalin or Obama? Other than that, I think they are exactly the same. The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain. Hopefully not when Michelle is blowing our money on an extravagant vacation there. Still reading? Okay, go to sleep now.

I see no reason to answer irrelevant questions. If I asked you in this thread what you thought about Justin Bieber, you'd think it was irrelevant to the discussion, yes?

Well, whether or not gay people can procreate is irrelevant. You've basically admitted as much by refusing to actually state that procreation is integral to marriage. We let infertile couples marry, therefore barring same-sex couples from marrying on the grounds that they can't procreate is just trying to hide your prejudice.

I assume you're done with this thread now, so don't respond.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Ah, you've touched on another way the left is destroying this country. Kids and marriage? Nah, they don't have anything to do with each other. Why have a mother and a father? Any mish mash will do for the left. As long as it means more welfare and votes for them.

Are you suggesting that we ban adoption and single-parent households or is this just another attempt to hide your prejudice behind this "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" nonsense?

News flash: same-sex couples raise children just as well as heterosexual parents do.

But you go to sleep now. Don't respond. I command you not to post in this thread anymore, since apparently you've decided we get to do that around here.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Ah, you've touched on another way the left is destroying this country. Kids and marriage? Nah, they don't have anything to do with each other. Why have a mother and a father? Any mish mash will do for the left. As long as it means more welfare and votes for them.

You have a Batman symbol for your avatar and you are seriously arguing about the importance of a mother and a father in a marriage being most important for raising children?
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

You have a Batman symbol for your avatar and you are seriously arguing about the importance of a mother and a father in a marriage being most important for raising children?

Now we are on to something important. You got a problem with Batman? Hey, Alfred did the best he could. So yes, Batman has issues. And yes, he grew up without a mother and father. Though, if Alfred were gay, he'd probably be wearing some type chaps instead of the Bat suit.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Are you suggesting that we ban adoption and single-parent households or is this just another attempt to hide your prejudice behind this "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" nonsense?

Says the anti-Christian, anti-child leftist. Whatever gets your side votes, that's what matters. I mean please, get some integrity.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Some people just shouldn't have internet access. Can't big government do anything right?

ooooooh -- which ones?! Do tell us, pretty please!
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Now we are on to something important. You got a problem with Batman? Hey, Alfred did the best he could. So yes, Batman has issues. And yes, he grew up without a mother and father. Though, if Alfred were gay, he'd probably be wearing some type chaps instead of the Bat suit.

On the contrary, I love Batman. My favorite DC hero though is the original Robin, Dick Grayson.

However, my point was that obviously Batman not only was raised by a single man, but also raised multiple orphans to be superheroes. The first Robin especially was best being raised by Bruce Wayne/Batman due to the very fact that they shared the common tragedy of losing their parents to violent crimes and Batman could teach Robin to seek justice rather than revenge. And he had the resources to do it. Having a wife would not have made Batman any more or less fit to raise children. Raising children is mainly based on situation and ability and willingness to do so, not gender. (Both Bruce Wayne and Alfred have some serious flaws in being parents though, especially when it comes to emotional needs of children.)
 
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