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Record Support for Gay Marriage[W:162:334]

Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Can you define "social engineering?"

Sure?

The practice of making laws or using other methods to influence public opinion or behavior relating to social problems or social conditions.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

The thread is about SSM, not adoption, no matter how far off topic it's gone.

Don't care really.

No one has the right to adopt kids but if straight people can, then it's discriminating and wrong to refuse to allow gays to do so, just like with denying them the ability to marry.

That is what my response was about....seeing if you liked being discriminated against as a man in family courts? Not fair, not right, is it? It's the same type of unfairness....

Again, not the same thing at all. No one has a right to other peoples children, or frankly to another human being, so the entire argument of adoption is just a matter of what is in the best interest of children. In terms of the fourteenth amendment it would be in the states interest to restrict access to adoption for such reasons. Do you think I was arguing my position not realizing this?
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

I'll just keep twaddling down the road, thanks.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Yeah, damn that de-segregation movement and all that civil rights equality stuff!:lamo:lamo

Libertarians are not supporters of Egalitarianism, so of course these talks of equality rings hollow to anyone like myself. We might agree with equality under the law and equal protection of rights, but equality in the social sphere outside of that limited scope has really no starting point with people like myself. I have no problem with civil rights if we define under it's original meaning and purpose, but I do not support it being defined in such a way where people are called into duty for other people.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Okay ... maybe someone can explain something for me.
I just heard that there's a young gay female singer on American Idol who revealed last night that she was adopted and raised by 2 gay women when she was quite young.
Now, does that make anyone else go hmmmmmmmm?

And yes, this is relevant to a SSM thread.

Well, at the very least, she has learned a way of life that children living in a man-woman household would not experience. Has she dated any men to make a comparison to the way she was raised? As a child or young adult, did she have friends who lived in "traditional" households? If she questioned her living arrangements, how was it handled by her "parents?" If she chooses to continue with what she has, that's her decision, of course.

On the other side of the coin, my cousin has a friend who is a lesbian and was in a long-term relationship...both of them very successful business women, so money was never a concern. They adopted several female babies from a foreign country, and everyone seemed happy. However, for whatever reason I will never know, she decided to start dating men, and left her partner broken-hearted, not only for her loss, but that it was a man who was responsible. Double-whammy for her! She has done a complete 180, got married, and seems happy. No one understands what happened there except her, so who knows.

Greetings, bubba. :2wave:
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Sure?

The practice of making laws or using other methods to influence public opinion or behavior relating to social problems or social conditions.

So, are Christians social engineering when they try to convince me that same-sex marriage should be illegal?

Edit: Evangelicals anyway, since that appears to be the only group that actually has a majority opposition to same-sex marriage.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

What should I go "hmmmm?" about? Gay women raise excellent singers?
An interesting hypothesis, we should research this

Please do ... and report back with your findings asap.

But before you go, while you're doing your research think about also answering this ... considering that 5% or less of the population is gay, what are the odds of 2 gay women adopting a young female who turned out to be gay by proclivity?
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Please do ... and report back with your findings asap.

But before you go, while you're doing your research think about also answering this ... considering that 5% or less of the population is gay, what are the odds of 2 gay women adopting a young female who turned out to be gay by proclivity?

Oh puh-lease....I can't believe that in 2014 someone is still spouting the "gay people turn kids gay" propoganda. That is just absolutely ridiculous.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Well, at the very least, she has learned a way of life that children living in a man-woman household would not experience. Has she dated any men to make a comparison to the way she was raised? As a child or young adult, did she have friends who lived in "traditional" households? If she questioned her living arrangements, how was it handled by her "parents?" If she chooses to continue with what she has, that's her decision, of course.

On the other side of the coin, my cousin has a friend who is a lesbian and was in a long-term relationship...both of them very successful business women, so money was never a concern. They adopted several female babies from a foreign country, and everyone seemed happy. However, for whatever reason I will never know, she decided to start dating men, and left her partner broken-hearted, not only for her loss, but that it was a man who was responsible. Double-whammy for her! She has done a complete 180, got married, and seems happy. No one understands what happened there except her, so who knows.

Greetings, bubba. :2wave:

Hi pol.
Those are the kinds of questions I was wondering if people would be asking but Deuce decided to go elsewhere.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Please do ... and report back with your findings asap.

But before you go, while you're doing your research think about also answering this ... considering that 5% or less of the population is gay, what are the odds of 2 gay women adopting a young female who turned out to be gay by proclivity?

About 5%.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Well first, we already established that SCOTUS is the final word...not the only word...and that the constitutionality of those laws are in question and not definitive in nature either way at the moment.

Second, okay...you think they're constitutional. So do you have an argument to back that up and arguments to counter peoples suggestion that they're not constitutional? Or is it just "That's my opinion because it is, that's why!"

Not according to the constitution it is not.

Do i have to go quote lawyers and Judges who agree with me? You know there are plenty.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Oh puh-lease....I can't believe that in 2014 someone is still spouting the "gay people turn kids gay" propoganda. That is just absolutely ridiculous.

Spouting? If that's all you were exposed to growing up, do you think it would influence you at all?

Here's an analogy I'm sure you'll like ...

I wouldn't call cannibalism natural for humans at this stage in human history, would you?
But if you were raised by cannibals somewhere, let's say, in Kenya, do you think you'd feel differently?

If you think your upbringing might not make you do things you'd otherwise not do then you're wildly mistaken.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Is that not what it is?

It might be for you, because you certainly don't seem to want to actually respond to points people make.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Not according to the constitution it is not.

Do i have to go quote lawyers and Judges who agree with me? You know there are plenty.

Feel free. But expect rebuttal.

One from this decade, please.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

It might be for you, because you certainly don't seem to want to actually respond to points people make.

What points are those?

Isn't that what disneydude has been saying this entire time when he says things like how society won't listen to peoples opinion anymore?
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

What points are those?

Isn't that what disneydude has been saying this entire time when he says things like how society won't listen to peoples opinion anymore?

Are evangelical Christians social engineering when they try to convince me same-sex marriage should be illegal?
Should infertile couples be allowed to marry? If procreation is integral to marriage, I mean. If procreation isn't integral to marriage, why would anyone bring it up in this discussion?
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Are evangelical Christians social engineering when they try to convince me same-sex marriage should be illegal?

Don't care.

Should infertile couples be allowed to marry? If procreation is integral to marriage, I mean. If procreation isn't integral to marriage, why would anyone bring it up in this discussion?

Don't care about any of that either.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Not according to the constitution it is not.

Hold on. So you've just spent a good portion of the thread attempting to use the SCOTUS and their not having ruled on marriage yet as justification for your beleif that the current laws aren't constitutional.

NOW you're suggesting SCOTUs isn't the final arbiter of whether a law is or isn't constitutional?
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

You dodge virtually every question I ask of you.

And it's related. If procreation is integral to marriage, why aren't you trying to ban infertile couples from marrying?

If procreation isn't integral to marriage, why bother bringing it up?

I'm not dodging anything, we haven't resolved my question yet. Don't expect me to answer you questions until you answer mine. Or go away, as this is not an important issue so it's not worth a lot of time.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage[W:162]

Lursa said:
Nothing. They only want the exact same thing as other married couples. So most of us would like to know what the big deal is...why there are objections. Nothing special about it.

What is 'unequal' about it?

Penrod said:
They want to make children? The main reason for marriage is so the state knows who owns what. Not so two people who supposedly love each other can live together for benefits
Why not allow polygamy? Why cant I marry a pig? And dont tell me because it cant consent. It doesnt consent when I eat bacon. It wont hurt anyone if i do.

They want to have families...and yes, some choose to have kids, others choose surrogates, some choose adoption.

But why arent they entitled to the same benefits as other married couples?

And polygamy is fine with me, I think it's dumb for women, but who cares. As for getting a pig to sign a contract...let me know when that's possible and we'll discuss you marrying one.

Again....let's stick to the rational, logical here, if you can.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Spouting? If that's all you were exposed to growing up, do you think it would influence you at all?

Here's an analogy I'm sure you'll like ...

I wouldn't call cannibalism natural for humans at this stage in human history, would you?
But if you were raised by cannibals somewhere, let's say, in Kenya, do you think you'd feel differently?

If you think your upbringing might not make you do things you'd otherwise not do then you're wildly mistaken.

Sorry. Gay parents don't make kids gay. Straight parents don't make kids straight. Its a ridiculous notion that isn't even worth spending the 20 seconds I've taken to write this post.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Libertarians are not supporters of Egalitarianism, so of course these talks of equality rings hollow to anyone like myself. We might agree with equality under the law and equal protection of rights, but equality in the social sphere outside of that limited scope has really no starting point with people like myself. I have no problem with civil rights if we define under it's original meaning and purpose, but I do not support it being defined in such a way where people are called into duty for other people.

Good for you.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

What points are those?

Isn't that what disneydude has been saying this entire time when he says things like how society won't listen to peoples opinion anymore?

While in America, people are free to have their own opinions, there are some opinions that are just so bigoted, racist, etc...that society disdains so much that although the person is still free to espouse them, they rarely will due to fear of public rebuke. Racist slurs are one example, outdated views about inter-racial marriage is another one. Sone bigoted statements about same sex marriage will join the list.

It isn't that soceity "won't listen to people's opinions anymore". Its that society won't tolerate certain hateful and bigoted views without exposing the bigot to consequences.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

It is NOTHING like interracial marriage. Stop trying to paint and equate yourself as some sort of long-mistreated race of people that has endured struggles through history. It's dumb and illogical. You're just guys that prefer sex with other guys. That's it. You've never been forced to do hard labor or refused access to a university or disallowed from using a public bathroom.

You mean, being beaten to death, denied housing and jobs, denied being at the bedside of a loved one that is dying, that kind of silly thing?

It's not a preference...many gays would PREFER not to be gay, mostly because they grow up in a society that tells them they are like dog****. Yeah....that's real nice too.

How would you feel if you were denied the same benefits and priviliges accorded to marriage by the state & feds because of your gender? That is exactly what this is, gender discrimination, the state not allowing people of the same gender to enter into a specific contract.
 
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