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Record Support for Gay Marriage[W:162:334]

Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Here's the problem. EVERYBODY is discriminated against. Everybody. Short guys don't get to play post on the basketball team. Slow guys don't get to run track. Homely girls don't get anywhere near the attention and opportunities that the pretty ones do. Smart kids get scholarships that mentally challenged kids don't. Type A people get more opportunities in business that more reserved people do.

Gay people, and many minorities of different types, have this incessant mindset that they face challenges and other people have life handed to them in whatever shape or form they wish.

That alone has kept the black community in a vice grip of failure. This notion that white people have the world handed to them on a six-figure platter. And strangely enough, there is discrimination within the black community among the lighter and darker varieties of people.

This is such a wussified, overly sensitive, reality TV driven, needy world we live in. Frankly, it weeds out the weak. My daughters will greatly benefit from that one day.

they all think every one else has it so nice
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Case in point....complicated story -one of my best friends (who has known for most of his life that he was adopted) came across a letter from his bio mom when he had to seek out biological information due to some potentially life threatening illnesses his own biological daughter was suffering from. He ended up finding the adoption agency that his adoptive parents went through and found out that a few years ago, his bio mom sent a letter to the agency in the hopes that one day he might seek her out. This happened about the same time we were adopting our sons. I asked him if he was going to reply, he said no. I asked why. He said he had no interest. She wasn't his mom. I found that interesting, because if it had been me...most likely I would have wanted to meet her, if for nothing other than curiosity. His feeling was one of zero connection to her. His response was, my parents are my parents. They are the only parents I've ever known or ever want to know. I realize that everyone is different. But it completely dispels your mistaken premise.

How does it dispel my premise? The boy didn't know the woman, and as you would expect didn't have much interest in the relationship. Hell, he is probably hurt by being thrown aside and has just decided to be done with her for good. That is pretty much to be expected. Perception is not the same thing as reality.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

BTW...I'm not using the terms to "insult" anyone. I'm simply pointing out the facts. There are many many many cases where a guy has sex with a girl and donates sperm, but is never a father or a parent. Same goes with the girl, but not as common. That isn't insulting...it is what it is.

If he provided the sperm in the creation of a child he is a father. That is a biological fact.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Oh? So at what point is a persons right to a kid established when they adopt a kid? Is it perhaps AFTER they adopt the kid?

Your statement was whining about gay rights, and that is what the response was to.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

How does it dispel my premise? The boy didn't know the woman, and as you would expect didn't have much interest in the relationship. Hell, he is probably hurt by being thrown aside and has just decided to be done with her for good. That is pretty much to be expected. Perception is not the same thing as reality.

It dispels your premise because in your argument, his bio mom is his parent and the couple who raised him are just people who raised him, not his parents. He would say otherwise...as I would suspect would many many other adopted kids.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Why do you think my argument had to do with the ability to use their facilities to do everyday things? :lol: Obviously everyone has arms and legs and fingers and toes, so obviously they can do all those things you listed.

So...then please list how their marriages are different. That was your claim.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

If he provided the sperm in the creation of a child he is a father. That is a biological fact.

You could say that he is the biological father. That would be technically correct. It is also technically correct to say that he was the sperm donor.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Great, but that has nothing to do with what we were talking about where kids DIDN'T get to see their parents.

Your blanket statements indicate you know nothing about the topic.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Your statement was whining about gay rights, and that is what the response was to.

Oh please, no one has the right to adopt children.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

You could say that he is the biological father. That would be technically correct. It is also technically correct to say that he was the sperm donor.

No, a sperm donor is someone that donates sperm to a sperm bank. Even then though, if his sperm is used he is a parent of a child.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

you and every one else have yet to give a reason why those circles of any size cant just jeep growing and growing

though I do hear on her people unhappy with such growth believe that it must be due to a conspiracy of manipulation and not their own failings

You're mistaking the "growing" part.

Straight people will never celebrate and promote gay marriage. They'll tolerate it and accept it as reality, but you're not going to see it become mainstream America. That's where a huge miscalculation is being made.

The media is all over this stuff, but it's not topical in everyday America. It's background noise. CNN and MSNBC try to promote it and act as if the US is just a huge version of South Beach or San Francisco. It's just not.

The vast overwhelming majority of America just ignores its gay communities, not out of spite, but out of practicality and indifference. Even the northeast, with it's say-one-thing-but-live-another attitude treats gays as sideshows more than serious public people, unless they are serious people who keep their private lives private. No one wants to know your sexual details no matter who you are.

This will pass, and then there'll still be this huge "Look-at-me!" contingent of gays that need desperately to be recognized and coddled. The gay parade must go on.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

No, a sperm donor is someone that donates sperm to sperm bank.

How is that different? If the sperm is then used to "create" a child, he is just as much the biological father as the guy who shoots the sperm directly into the vagina of the biological mother.
In both cases they are the biological father and the sperm donor. Either/both terms are technically correct. But neither becomes the "parent" of the child simply by the action of delivering the sperm, no matter what the procedure used is.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Your blanket statements indicate you know nothing about the topic.

I'm more than aware of different situations existing, and the fact remains, we were not talking about the situation you brought up.
 
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Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

How is that different? If the sperm is then used to "create" a child, he is just as much the biological father as the guy who shoots the sperm directly into the vagina of the biological mother.
In both cases they are the biological father and the sperm donor. Either/both terms are technically correct. But neither becomes the "parent" of the child simply by the action of delivering the sperm, no matter what the procedure used is.

Did you ignore my last sentence in that post on purpose or accident? I already said he is a parent if the sperm is used, but just that he is sperm donor up until that point.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

It dispels your premise because in your argument, his bio mom is his parent and the couple who raised him are just people who raised him, not his parents. He would say otherwise...as I would suspect would many many other adopted kids.

My premise had nothing to do with how the kid would see it.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

You're mistaking the "growing" part.

Straight people will never celebrate and promote gay marriage. They'll tolerate it and accept it as reality, but you're not going to see it become mainstream America. That's where a huge miscalculation is being made.

The media is all over this stuff, but it's not topical in everyday America. It's background noise. CNN and MSNBC try to promote it and act as if the US is just a huge version of South Beach or San Francisco. It's just not.

The vast overwhelming majority of America just ignores its gay communities, not out of spite, but out of practicality and indifference. Even the northeast, with it's say-one-thing-but-live-another attitude treats gays as sideshows more than serious public people, unless they are serious people who keep their private lives private. No one wants to know your sexual details no matter who you are.

This will pass, and then there'll still be this huge "Look-at-me!" contingent of gays that need desperately to be recognized and coddled. The gay parade must go on.

What you are mistaking Erod, is that anyone is expecting a "Celebration" of gay marriage. The hope is, at least among gay people that I know, that once it becomes recognized, people can go on about their daily lives and be treated with the same honor and respect as everyone else. The only reason you see the Hoopla over gay marriage is because gays have had to fight tooth and nail to get the right that should be theirs regardless.

It isn't that the overwhelming majority of America "ignores" its gay communities, its that with acceptance, it is not longer stigmatized and becomes part of the norm. We've seen this clearly in the younger generation. Many "gay" clubs have ceased to exist, because nowadays, gays can go to pretty much any club as straights and it isn't an issue. Gay kids are out in many high schools these days and it isn't a big deal like it would have been in my day or your day.

Yes...you are correct...this will pass and as society becomes more and more accepting of gays and gay marriage, it is going to become like inter-racial marriage, which used to be a big deal, but now isn't really much of a deal at all, except among the extreme bigots of the world.

As for Gay parades....those also are diminishing. It used to be that it was deemed important to have a parade to let people who are closeted or uncomfortable see that they are not alone and marginalized as many would have them believe. Now, the younger generation doesn't feel the need or see the value in them. I have seen the numbers of participants and attendees fall pretty dramatically over the last decade...which is sad in some ways...but a sign of progress in many other ways.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Good gosh, stop comparing gays to the plights of slaves. So getting formally married (versus a civil union) is akin to forced labor and post whippings?

And last I checked, gay people have been working and voting for a long, long time.

Little dramatic, don't you think?

Not slaves, the civil rights of blacks, as in during Jim Crow, etc.
More like not being able to marry a white person.....which was overturned.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

My premise had nothing to do with how the kid would see it.

Well...that's really all that matters. A sperm donor may desperately want to believe that they are the kids "real father"...but ultimately, who the kid determines to be their father is really all that matters. If a child sees his adoptive father as his real father....he is the real father. The biological father/sperm donor will always remain that.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Did you ignore my last sentence in that post on purpose or accident? I already said he is a parent if the sperm is used, but just that he is sperm donor up until that point.
Didn't ignore it at all. It was added after I replied. Regardless, it doesn't make him a parent. It makes him the biological father as well as the sperm donor.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Well...that's really all that matters. A sperm donor may desperately want to believe that they are the kids "real father"...but ultimately, who the kid determines to be their father is really all that matters. If a child sees his adoptive father as his real father....he is the real father. The biological father/sperm donor will always remain that.

Really dude, this isn't hard to figure out. The real facts of the matter aren't determined by what jimmy boy might think those facts are. Otherwise, who is to say which way is up or which way is down. Hell, If I thought down is left and up is the color blue in your world I would be right. However, in reality, I would not be right.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Really dude, this isn't hard to figure out. The real facts of the matter aren't determined by what jimmy boy might think those facts are. Otherwise, who is to say which way is up or which way is down. Hell, If I thought down is left and up is the color blue in your world I would be right. However, in reality, I would not be right.

You are mistaking "parent" with "sperm donor" or "Biological father". They are not the same. A kid may want to believe that his adoptive father is his biological father...and he would be wrong.
On the other hand, the same kid may refuse to accept his biological father/sperm donor as his "real parent" because that person had zero to do with parenting him and raising him, and the kid would be absolutely correct.
Parenting is not donating a sperm or an egg. That is where you premise fails.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

You're mistaking the "growing" part.

Straight people will never celebrate and promote gay marriage. They'll tolerate it and accept it as reality, but you're not going to see it become mainstream America. That's where a huge miscalculation is being made.

The media is all over this stuff, but it's not topical in everyday America. It's background noise. CNN and MSNBC try to promote it and act as if the US is just a huge version of South Beach or San Francisco. It's just not.

The vast overwhelming majority of America just ignores its gay communities, not out of spite, but out of practicality and indifference. Even the northeast, with it's say-one-thing-but-live-another attitude treats gays as sideshows more than serious public people, unless they are serious people who keep their private lives private. No one wants to know your sexual details no matter who you are.

This will pass, and then there'll still be this huge "Look-at-me!" contingent of gays that need desperately to be recognized and coddled. The gay parade must go on.

um i don't celebrate hetero sexual marriage but ill celebrate if my friends or family get married doesn't matter if their gay or not


im happy to hear that gay couples can get married in some places now

so your talking to a hetero sexual who will celebrate a gay marriage and who supports the rights of people to enter into such a contract there are a lot of other people who feel the same way when their friends and family who are gay get married or who approve of gay marriage

so you don't speak for hetero sexuals

not like the gay community is apart from all of are community's not like were actually separate from one another just dividing people by traits hear

now what do you mean by private cause i see tons of people who don't hide being hetero sexual do you feel the same way about them? I don't consider them a show and they are people
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Yeah, and there was no social engineering about anti-discrimination laws and just in general other races
Of course not. Intelligent and rational people have seen the high price bigotry wreaks on society and acted on that at times against the wishes of the ignorant. You still seem to defend bigotry for some reason.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

Of course not. Intelligent and rational people have seen the high price bigotry wreaks on society and acted on that at times against the wishes of the ignorant. You still seem to defend bigotry for some reason.

You mean like how I don't support anti-discrimination laws? That has nothing to do with supporting bigotry, but supporting the rights of people to their property, association, labor and service.
 
Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

You mean like how I don't support anti-discrimination laws? That has nothing to do with supporting bigotry, but supporting the rights of people to their property, association, labor and service.

Don't fool yourself. You may want to believe you aren't supporting bigotry, but that is exactly what you are doing.
 
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