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Thread: Record Support for Gay Marriage[W:162:334]

  1. #341
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    Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage[W:162]

    Quote Originally Posted by Penrod View Post
    But they are still the same. Only the color is different. There is a lot more difference between a man and a woman.
    "But they are still the same. Only the race is different. There is a lot more difference between black and white" - Circa early to mid 20th century

    Do you think if marriage did not usually lead to children or never led to children it would even ever have been invented? To what purpose? Marriage was invented in case you had children not so you could. Its all about inheritance and property rights.
    Marriage is partly about children but the important thing to note is it's not a pre-requisite.

    Otherwise you can amend the law and demand a fertility test every year for every married couple and if they don't produce children the marriage should be terminated by the state.

  2. #342
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    Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So even fewer conservatives think increasing gun control is a problem?
    Guns, is that what you want to misdirect to? Now, how many pregnancies do you know of in gay marriages, which you have stated are "exactly" the same as normal marriage? No need to answer, since you either won't or you'll come up with some non answer, we know it is zero. So admit it, they are not the same.

    If you want to talk about guns, or gay rights to own guns, I'm sure there is another thread for that. But, you'll probably go there and talk about gay marriage.
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  3. #343
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    Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    There's simply no integrity in the debate to begin with. We've just heaped a new definition on a word that already had a definition. It's like deciding that English is the same language as Russian. You can say it, or pass a law declaring it, but that doesn't make it so. That's where our system has lost any sense of integrity.

    This whole thing is simply about votes and political power. Nothing more. Otherwise this would have been changed sometime in the past 3,000 years or so.
    No, gays are finally being included into rights they should have been included in years ago but they were the victims or religious persecution and discrimination. The fact that finally the population of the USA is willing to accept gays as "normal" people with the same civil rights as other people have.

    The whole things is about people no longer blindly goose-stepping behind their religious leaders when they are discriminating and ostracizing millions of people who do not do anything "illegal or evil" just because they are not straight.
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    Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage[W:162]

    Quote Originally Posted by Penrod View Post
    Until SCOTUS declares then unconstitutional they are not
    Correct. However, "they're on the books now" is a poor argument as to why you think they're constitutional in the sense of a challenge within the court.

    The fact the lower courts have overturned those laws indicate there is a constitutional question. Contrary to your seeming belief, while SCOTUS is the highest court in the land those lower courts aren't just non-existant. The reality is the constitutionality of those laws ARE in question. In Virginia, for instance, the law states it IS unconstitutional.

    The "SCOTUS hasn't ruled" knife cuts both ways. So currently, in this country, SOME states laws are constitutional and some aren't. Until SCOTUS rules one way or another, it's a mess with different ones saying different things. Thus the conversation and people expressing their personal opinions on what the constitutionality of it is.

    The 14th amendment was never properly ratified for one thing
    Legally, you're jus wrong. Sorry. You being pissy about it or missing a forgone age of the Confederacy doens't change that. Legally, the 14th amendment is the law and is part of the Constitution. You don't get to pick and choose to ignore it.

    and the 10th says any power not granted congress is the province of the state.
    Indeed. But the 14th and the Supremacy clause establish the protections present in the Constitution apply to the States as well as to the Federal.

    That means that powers not granted congress was the province of the states, but those powers must be within the boundries and limitations established by the constitution.

    They cant take your weapons because the constitution specifically says they cant.
    And the constitution specifically establishes equal protection under the law.

  5. #345
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    Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Guns, is that what you want to misdirect to? Now, how many pregnancies do you know of in gay marriages, which you have stated are "exactly" the same as normal marriage? No need to answer, since you either won't or you'll come up with some non answer, we know it is zero. So admit it, they are not the same.

    If you want to talk about guns, or gay rights to own guns, I'm sure there is another thread for that. But, you'll probably go there and talk about gay marriage.
    Do you favor annulling or preventing the marriage of elderly or otherwise-infertile couples? Anyone over 60 legally barred from marriage?

    And don't even think to go with this "you're changing the subject" bull****. You literally posted a list of other topics you think people should be more concerned about instead of same-sex marriage. You tried to deflect the discussion to ANYTHING ELSE.
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  6. #346
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    Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Whether you're against it or not is irrelevant as to whether the currnet laws are constitutional or not.

    They're two seperate issues, but you keep deflecting by focusing on your claim that you don't want marriage to exist at all.

    Are you suggesting that state marriage is unconstitutional in and of itself? Because if you're not, then your prefered opinion on the law is irrelevant as to whether or not the law on the books is or isn't constitutional.
    I want marriage to exist. Just not state sanctioned.

    No I am suggesting no such thing. I said marriage is a state matter not a federal one
    I wish it were neither however.

  7. #347
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    Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

    For those suggesting the important state interest to marriage is the creation of biological offspring that include the DNA from both spouses....

    How in the world can you suggest disallowing homosexuals from entering into marriage substantially is related to that purpose if you don't also support disallowing infertile people from becoming married as well?

    Not even counting those that are infertile due to age, 10.9% of all women ages 18-44 are infertile (Source). Meanwhile, just shy of 4% of the population is homosexual (Source)

    Hell, that's going off the higher standard of gender. Let's say we actually look at it based on sexual orientation as a lower tier of scrutiny...

    If having biological children of both spouses is a legitimate state interest, how in the world is banning homosexuals rationally related to that if you're not also banning infertile people?

  8. #348
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    Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Penrod View Post
    I want marriage to exist. Just not state sanctioned.
    Cool deal. Understand that position entirely.

    Still has nothing to do with whether or not you believe the current laws on the books are constitutional or not.

    No I am suggesting no such thing. I said marriage is a state matter not a federal one
    Great, then we come back to the question as to whether or not the current laws are constitutional. And "I don't want marriage as part of the law at all" isn't an answer to that question.

  9. #349
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    Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    No, continue on with your little forum circle jerk. That's the MO around here.

    I don't need distorted semantics to tell me what marriage is, and has been, for 5,000 years.
    facts proved your post wrong and deflectiong for that wont change anything

    also did you just claim that until recently marriage was only man and woman for the last 5000 years?

    I hope not because that would make you post factually wrong again
    facts win again
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  10. #350
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    Re: Record Support for Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    Yea, right! I've been married to my wife since 1972. I wonder if perverted relationships last that long. We didn't need anyone donating their children to us, we had our own.
    Good for you. I've been married for 25 years myself. I am sorry, however, that you have such disdain for adopted children. Its sad to see people with that kind of attitude towards children who have no responsibility for the situation that they find themselves in necessitating a need to find a new family for them. Thankfully there are a lot of people who don't have the same attitude.
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