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Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

apdst said:
I don't know who owns those waters; if there's any international agreement making the straights neutral territory.
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You said that when we put sanctions on Russia, we need to be prepared for them to respond militarily. Which is correct. If you cripple a country economically, and they have the ability to, they will attack you. Should be a good lesson learned, unless you're hoping they will attack you and then that's a whole other story.
 
Buck Ewer said:
Vladimer will pull out at the last possible second... smiling to himself.
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It seems this might be the area where Obama promised to be "flexible" after the election. Russia will take over the Crimea with bluster and posturing being the only response. The real question is whether Putin will advance beyond the Crimea.
 
Montecresto said:
You said that when we put sanctions on Russia, we need to be prepared for them to respond militarily. Which is correct. If you cripple a country economically, and they have the ability to, they will attack you. Should be a good lesson learned, unless you're hoping they will attack you and then that's a whole other story.
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I never said that.
 
Montecresto said:
You said that when we put sanctions on Russia, we need to be prepared for them to respond militarily. Which is correct. If you cripple a country economically, and they have the ability to, they will attack you. Should be a good lesson learned, unless you're hoping they will attack you and then that's a whole other story.
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Ability is the key, which they have in the Ukraine. What other countries do you think Russia could or would attack?

Russia is no Superpower but Putin has the country behaving like one, and only because of weak leadership elsewhere.
 
In official state-run media, the Chinese government has accused the West of maintaining a "Cold War mentality" against Russia in the contest for influence in Ukraine, and of "meddling" in Ukraine's affairs by manipulating popular opinion against Russia to favor Western interests.
 
Perotista said:
There is always that, isn't there? One has to to play these thing carefully and I hope close to the vest. Russia isn't Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, or Libya. It isn't even Iran or North Korea, one better be careful.
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We need to show some balls. Putin can't afford an all out war anymore than we can; less even.
 
Grant said:
Ability is the key, which they have in the Ukraine. What other countries do you think Russia could or would attack?

Russia is no Superpower but Putin has the country behaving like one, and only because of weak leadership elsewhere.
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I don't know if they would or not, but I was agreeing with apdst that if we place sanctions, we should be prepared for them to attack.
 
This is largely a distraction Putin is creating for what is a crumbling economy in Russia. He's also a half-nuts KGB lifer who wants nothing more than to see the Soviet Union restored. That said, if Ukraine is trying to westernize, we should help them. You don't have to fire a weapon to show military strength.

The wild card is China, who is lending a hint of support for Russia.

Putin is crazy. Obama is lost and clueless. That's a scary concoction.
 
Erod said:
This is largely a distraction Putin is creating for what is a crumbling economy in Russia. He's also a half-nuts KGB lifer who wants nothing more than to see the Soviet Union restored. That said, if Ukraine is trying to westernize, we should help them. You don't have to fire a weapon to show military strength.

The wild card is China, who is lending a hint of support for Russia.

Putin is crazy. Obama is lost and clueless. That's a scary concoction.
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China is sympathetic towards Russia on this and has nearly accused the US of fomenting the coup to begin with. They've seen all this over and over and I think they're clearly tired of it.
 
Montecresto said:
In official state-run media, the Chinese government has accused the West of maintaining a "Cold War mentality" against Russia in the contest for influence in Ukraine, and of "meddling" in Ukraine's affairs by manipulating popular opinion against Russia to favor Western interests.
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What does Chinese propaganda have to do with anything?
 
Montecresto said:
I don't know if they would or not, but I was agreeing with apdst that if we place sanctions, we should be prepared for them to attack.
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Why do you keep insisting that I said that? What's wrong with you?
 
apdst said:
Why do you keep insisting that I said that? What's wrong with you?
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Here's where you said it, post 182, what's wrong with you?

Obama's economic retaliation might be a gut shot to Russia and severely damage their economy. However, we need to be prepared for Russia to respond to that militarily.
 
Montecresto said:
As a threat, or to actually push Putin back out of the peninsula?
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To call Putin's bluff; with the assurance that American aircraft will provide air support for Ukrainian and Crimean forces.
 
apdst said:
To call Putin's bluff; with the assurance that American aircraft will provide air support for Ukrainian and Crimean forces.
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There are times, guy, when war is NOT the answer...or didn't you learn anything from Iraq (which turned out just as Bush 41 warned, which warning Bush 43 ignored)? It is stupid, absolutely insane for the two nations with the most nuclear weapons to engage in direct combat with each other...because then it does not matter that our military is better than theirs, because we can't shoot down their nukes.
 
apdst said:
I don't know who owns those waters; if there's any international agreement making the straights neutral territory.
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I don't know either. Looking at a map, the Dardanelles has Turkey on both sides going into the Sea of Marmara. The Bosphorus also has both side belonging to Turkey between the Sea of Marmara and the Black Sea. So it seems they would belong to Turkey and then there is the Aegean Sea to be sailed to get to the Dardanelles. In theory, it should not be a problem to get Turkey's okay. Now there are two bridges that cross the Bosphorus, I am not sure how high they are or if a carrier could sail under them.

Also according to this article the depth of the Bosphorus varies from 13 meters to 110 meters. That 13 meters, approximately 50 feet may be a problem for any carrier.

Bosphorus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But even if possible depending the the bridges and depth, I think moving in a carrier battle fleet/squardon/group what ever they are called today into the Black Sea would be a mistake. But that is just a personal opinion.
 
apdst said:
We need to show some balls. Putin can't afford an all out war anymore than we can; less even.
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I know, but history is repeat with people and countries who supposedly couldn't afford a war that still went to war. Supposed according to the news a lot of the troops are now returning to their barracks. That is a good thing.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
There are times, guy, when war is NOT the answer...or didn't you learn anything from Iraq (which turned out just as Bush 41 warned, which warning Bush 43 ignored)? It is stupid, absolutely insane for the two nations with the most nuclear weapons to engage in direct combat with each other...because then it does not matter that our military is better than theirs, because we can't shoot down their nukes.
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It's always all or nothing with you people. you act like our only options are do nothing or send troops. How about Obama simply tell Putin if he shoots one bullet in the Ukraine HE will impose the strongest sanctions possible on Russia. Then actually stick to his word(for once) and go through with it. But he won't do that. Even today he's sending out Biden to say we're going to pawn it off on "international institutions" to take care of the situation.

the point is NOBODY(not us, not the Russian, not the planet) expects Obama to show backbone here. If, however, he does I will be the first one to commend him for it.
 
apdst said:
To call Putin's bluff; with the assurance that American aircraft will provide air support for Ukrainian and Crimean forces.
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I don't think you can call Putins bluff on this, and if our air support did target Russian forces, I don't think you or I would be happy with the result.
 
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