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Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

Higgins86 said:
Collectively NATO would destroy Russia. The issue is more a case of being able to get the necessary pieces in place and avoiding mass civilian casualties/ throwing the whole region into turmoil.
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Oh, the Pentagon could probably do it themselves. That wasn't my point. Taking on Russia would be nothing like taking on Iraq or Libya, and I'm sure the Pentagon realises that and is reason for their comments that you pointed out.
 
clownboy said:
Still doesn't answer the questions about what you have proposed.

And also yes, Bush seemed to have great respect for Putin. From what I could tell it flowed both ways. Unlike Obama whom he mastered in their very first meeting and every exchange thereafter.
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Obama told them after the election he would have more flexibility, now he gives them everything they want. Obama goes out and makes a peep now and them but no one is listening.
 
Born Free said:
I believe it's not the empty threats referring to Ukraine, it's all the empty threats of Obama's past that now no country takes what Obama says with any concern.
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Good.
 
Post #115 with two Southern Naval blockades.
If you want more of a war footing, blockade the Eastern water near Japan and to the West of Ukraine as far North as possible.
Know where every single Navy vessel is for every possible Nation.

Start looking at blocking all train traffic into Nato countries, as well as ALL vehicular traffic.
Follow up with shutting down all gas lines and oil pipes, as well as cutting off water flowing from NATO countries.
There's plenty more if you really want to show the war-hawks how bad you are.

Meanwhile, Russia's stock market actually lost 10% of its value today on Monday March 3rd.
How many more days do you V. Putin can take that, without amping up further, or looking for a deal ?
clownboy said:
Still doesn't answer the questions about what you have proposed.
And also yes, Bush seemed to have great respect for Putin. From what I could tell it flowed both ways.
Unlike Obama whom he mastered in their very first meeting and every exchange thereafter.
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If Putin responded to a crisis, as you say, why did he not have enough influence on Yanukovich to have a better ending?
Besides my military options in post 129, sanctions have been explained to me as a solid option.
Since 2/3 of Russia's income is coming from the EU, it is easy for me to see why the EU is such a feckless appeasor .
Montecresto said:
No, I'm saying that his action is a response to a crisis.
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NIMBY said:
If Putin responded to a crisis, as you say, why did he not have enough influence on Yanukovich to have a better ending?
Besides my military options in post 129, sanctions have been explained to me as a solid option.
Since 2/3 of Russia's income is coming from the EU, it is easy for me to see why the EU is such a feckless appeasor .
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So you're accusing Putin of creating the crisis.
 
Putin was unable to stop the crisis in the Ukraine, a matter of fact.
This is a much more direct correlation than Obama is responsible for Putin invading Ukraine .
Montecresto said:
So you're accusing Putin of creating the crisis.
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polgara said:
:agree: It's Winter over there, too, and it's cold! :mrgreen: This is not Sochi, where they had to manufacture snow for the Olympic games. Palm trees grow on the streets of Sochi!

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:
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Howdy, Pol. I didn't watch any of the Olympic Games, so I wouldn't know anything about Sochi
 
NIMBY said:
Russian soldiers are wearing generic green instead of their colors.
They are instigating Pro-Russian riots.
Baier on FOX is an excellent watch.
Instead of slamming Obama, they're one of the few FOX programs to do great reporting .
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During the day I will switch back and forth between Fox and CNN. I never watch the news channel after supper. It is all political talk shows and I am smart enough to make up my mind without me being told what to think about the issues or happenings. But apparently plenty others need their fix.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The world is producing roughly 80-85 million barrels of oil per day. Russia produces about 12 % of that. The world does not have 8 million barrels of reserve production to make up for that production. Combine that with the reduction of Iran's production, the amount of excess oil is minimal. Which is why the price of oil is around the $100 per barrrel mark +/- a few dollars, and not $50.


The diversion would just mean that oil that went to Europe goes to Asia at extra cost and the oil that was going to go to Asia goes to Europe at extra cost

Economc isolation will mean a stop of Russian investments in the EU and NA, and a stop in EU investments in Russia

Political isolation will mean Russia gets kicked out of bodies like the G8.

All of which Russia can live with. Strategically Russia coud not live without the port in Crimea, and being replaced there with a Nato port.
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Yeah, that was my point. Perhaps not said as good, but the meaning is the same. Good point on the Crimea port also. One should realize that the Ukraine is right there in Russia's backyard if not in their screen in back porch.
 
NIMBY said:
Are you really saying that sanctions didn't affect Iran?
That Iran didn't elect a moderate leader due to sanctions?
That Iran didn't come to the table cuz they were starving?
That Israel and Congressional war-hawks still want sanctions, since they don't work ?
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I think the whole thing had little effect on those in charge. The moderate leader is just a face with the real power behind him. He is the face to the world.
 
NIMBY said:
Putin was unable to stop the crisis in the Ukraine, a matter of fact.
This is a much more direct correlation than Obama is responsible for Putin invading Ukraine .
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Hey I'm not blaming Obama for anything in the Ukraine (yet anyway).
 
Perotista said:
Yeah, that was my point. Perhaps not said as good, but the meaning is the same. Good point on the Crimea port also. One should realize that the Ukraine is right there in Russia's backyard if not in their screen in back porch.
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That's what legitimises Putin at this point I like to continue to point out. That could change.
 
NIMBY said:
If Putin responded to a crisis, as you say, why did he not have enough influence on Yanukovich to have a better ending?
Besides my military options in post 129, sanctions have been explained to me as a solid option.
Since 2/3 of Russia's income is coming from the EU, it is easy for me to see why the EU is such a feckless appeasor .
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I am at a loss how Putin having influence over Yanukovich would have lessened the crisis.

The previous regime were ousted amid criminal charges of corruption, $35 billion of US aid money has gone missing, and the open admission that the State Department was actively fostering the ouster.

Obviously, Putin had no means of controlling any of that, from his viewpoint, it was an attempt to destabilize his relations with Ukraine, rather like how the US would react if Putin were trying to get rid of a duly elected government in Canada. Or so Canada would like to believe, although the last five years have given us great cause to doubt.
 
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NIMBY said:
Then you are against what one wing of the GOP is publicly calling for?
How do you feel about the GOP's many wings attacking the POTUS this early into a crisis created by Putin ?
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I think I said what I thought in my first post on this thread. Instead of ratcheting up the rhetoric with nothing but tough talk, how about offering to mediate the dispute. That was one suggestion in the article posted in the OP. I think Russia has a valid interest in what happens in the Ukraine. It would be like us with Mexico or Canada, but the Ukraine belonged to Russia for hundreds of years, not like Canada or Mexico ever being part of the good old USA. But the same thing applies.

I am not criticizing the president. there really isn't much he can do if Putin wants to take over the Ukraine. In fact their is nothing NATO or the EU can do to stop him.
 
Perotista said:
We will see. I am no expert on that side of the world, but I do not think Putin would care much. If he wants the Ukraine it is his.
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The Russian stock market dropped 12% today, on account of the move into Crimea, alone. Cutting off oil and gas to all of Europe could be a major disaster for Russia's economy.

Obama's economic retaliation might be a gut shot to Russia and severely damage their economy. However, we need to be prepared for Russia to respond to that militarily.
 
Fearandloathing said:
I am at a loss how Putin having influence over Yanukovich would have lessened the crisis.

The previous regime were ousted amid criminal charges of corruption, $35 billion of US aid money has gone missing, and the open admission that the State Department was actively fostering the ouster.
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Yet Putin invaded another Nation because the Yanukovich that he continues to protect lost control of another Nation.
Rather convenient wouldn't you say?
When is it Putin's fault ?
 
Montecresto said:
That's what legitimises Putin at this point I like to continue to point out. That could change.
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I would like to see the president offer his services as a mediator. but that is me.
 
Perotista said:
I think I said what I thought in my first post on this thread. Instead of ratcheting up the rhetoric with nothing but tough talk, how about offering to mediate the dispute. That was one suggestion in the article posted in the OP. I think Russia has a valid interest in what happens in the Ukraine. It would be like us with Mexico or Canada, but the Ukraine belonged to Russia for hundreds of years, not like Canada or Mexico ever being part of the good old USA. But the same thing applies.

I am not criticizing the president. there really isn't much he can do if Putin wants to take over the Ukraine. In fact their is nothing NATO or the EU can do to stop him.
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Obama could park a carrier task force in The Black Sea.
 
apdst said:
The Russian stock market dropped 12% today, on account of the move into Crimea, alone. Cutting off oil and gas to all of Europe could be a major disaster for Russia's economy.

Obama's economic retaliation might be a gut shot to Russia and severely damage their economy. However, we need to be prepared for Russia to respond to that militarily.
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There is always that, isn't there? One has to to play these thing carefully and I hope close to the vest. Russia isn't Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, or Libya. It isn't even Iran or North Korea, one better be careful.
 
That's certainly not all we have apdst.
Shut down ALL Air Flight to all EU countries and North America.
Blockade all entrances to Russian ports.
Stop frieght and passenger rail traffic.
Block all auto/truck traffic at their borders.

Freeze all of their assets overseas.
Round up all their Nationals overseas and send them on a slow train to Crimea .
apdst said:
The Russian stock market dropped 12% today, on account of the move into Crimea, alone. Cutting off oil and gas to all of Europe could be a major disaster for Russia's economy.

Obama's economic retaliation might be a gut shot to Russia and severely damage their economy. However, we need to be prepared for Russia to respond to that militarily.
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NIMBY said:
Yet Putin invaded another Nation because the Yanukovich that he continues to protect lost control of another Nation.
Rather convenient wouldn't you say?
When is it Putin's fault ?
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Wait! I get it, now! You people are so desperate to defend The Messiah, that you are forced to justify Russia's actions.
 
Perotista said:
I think I said what I thought in my first post on this thread. Instead of ratcheting up the rhetoric with nothing but tough talk, how about offering to mediate the dispute. That was one suggestion in the article posted in the OP. I think Russia has a valid interest in what happens in the Ukraine. It would be like us with Mexico or Canada, but the Ukraine belonged to Russia for hundreds of years, not like Canada or Mexico ever being part of the good old USA. But the same thing applies.

I am not criticizing the president. there really isn't much he can do if Putin wants to take over the Ukraine. In fact their is nothing NATO or the EU can do to stop him.
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More like the US was once part of Canada. But the analogy fades in the fact that America attempted to invade Canada twice, and were repelled.

The Ukraine was a part of Poland long before Russia was much of a country, so the argument is kind of like who does America belong to? "Indians" who aren't from India or "Eskimos" who are really Inuit?


And you are right, there isn't much Obama can do, his public protestations notwtithstanding, which makes it even more stange why he chose to unleash the CIA hounds in the first place.
 
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