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Thread: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    President Obama is so concerned about the growing crisis in the Ukraine, that he and the vice president left on vacation this weekend. That is just one of the many reasons Putin should take him so seriously.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Europeans tend believe that committees can solve all their problems so they create bloated bureaucracies full of big headed brainy people with swell accents, assume that something will be done and their problems will be solved and that's all that need be done. The original intent of these bureaucracies will lie long forgotten even while they grow into an an expensive sludge where some speak their opinions (as on these boards), more regulations are passed, but nothing of real consequence is ever done. They do more harm than good.
    The only ones doing harm are people like you, who want to shoot first and never ask questions later.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Europeans tend believe that committees can solve all their problems so they create bloated bureaucracies full of big headed brainy people with swell accents, assume that something will be done and their problems will be solved and that's all that need be done. The original intent of these bureaucracies will lie long forgotten even while they grow into an an expensive sludge where some speak their opinions (as on these boards), more regulations are passed, but nothing of real consequence is ever done. They do more harm than good.
    LOL

    Like it or not, there's truth in those words.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    "Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine"

    It is a mighty big place to isolate. Perhaps they should concentrate on isolating our border with Mexico.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The same UN that has failed to act in the Ukraine....there is no reason to support the UN if they are not going to enforce international law, so yes, considering that Obama committed the US to a red line, and the UNs failure to enforce international law...we should have said f=that and went in.
    There are vast limits to world organizations such as the UN. Aside from the highly politicized General Assembly, the UN needs the consent of the world's great powers to engage in robust enforcement via the Security Council. That's far easier said than done, given differences in national interest.

    If one looks at the UN Chart, excerpts from Article 2 state:

    3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and. justice, are not endangered.

    4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.


    For an objective outside observer, the operative question is when these principles will become truly operative. They weren't respected during the Balkans conflicts and Kosovo's being extracted from Serbia. They weren't respected when it came to the second Persian Gulf War (the 1st one actually had Security Council support). They were bent when it came to Libya. They were ignored when Russia moved into Crimea. This gap between the principles and practice undermines the integrity of the legal arguments now being put forth with respect to Crimea.

    The fact is that power calculations and national interest take precedence over those principles when nations are charting their course to safeguard what they perceive to be major interests. Hence, the principles remain ideals, but ones that have not been fulfilled. There is little indication that will change anytime soon.

    The nation-state remains the best guardian of its interests (as I believe it properly should). It is uncertain whether an arrangement whereby it would truly subordinate its major interests to any world organization would be viable. The UN Charter's principles are aspirational. The mechanism (of the UN) falls far short of what would be needed to bring them to fruition. Some combination of power, diplomacy, and an effective UN Security Council might create a balance where they might be realized more often than would otherwise be the case. A more effective Security Council would depend on its members transcending parochial interests (as opposed to their major interests, which can't be expected), to make the Council more objective and realistic in its work.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 03-08-14 at 06:46 PM.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The only ones doing harm are people like you, who want to shoot first and never ask questions later.
    Who do you think I want to shoot, Pete?

    You are the typical European I mentioned who believes an undemocratic Union, a great bureaucratic morass of buddy-appointed, money-sucking toad-eaters, can solve the problems human beings must face during their lives, and you give these idlers the authority to run your lives from cradle to grave, depending always on their authority, good-will and unexplained expertise all along the way. It has led to the permanent adolescence of entire European nations.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Just because you didn't get to see the military in full swing again, doesn't mean the Obama administration is setting back with popcorn.
    Nah, he's sitting back on Miami Beach with Pina Colodas.
    President Assad is fighting a war on terror and the US is impeding his efforts, because of a long term US foreign policy goal of "regime change" in Syria.
    Assad is fighting a war on terror??? Who initiated this 'regime change idea? Nancy Pelosi??

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh really now Mr. Professional, why don't you refute the claims I made of those opposing president Assad and seeking to impose their own form of tyranny in Syria.
    How can one refute nonsense? If you continue to make ridiculous claims you should at least offer up a tea spoon of legitimate evidence for some much needed credibility..

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Who do you think I want to shoot, Pete?

    You are the typical European I mentioned who believes an undemocratic Union, a great bureaucratic morass of buddy-appointed, money-sucking toad-eaters, can solve the problems human beings must face during their lives, and you give these idlers the authority to run your lives from cradle to grave, depending always on their authority, good-will and unexplained expertise all along the way. It has led to the permanent adolescence of entire European nations.
    Another way of looking at the EU is whether the EU, bureaucratic and imperfect as it might be, is a viable mechanism for maximizing prospects for European peace. If so, it has enormous value given the vast harm that had occurred during past European wars (particularly WW I and WW II). Certainly, the post-WW II narrative has been one of greater cooperation and prosperity. That narrative has benefited all of Europe.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Another way of looking at the EU is whether the EU, bureaucratic and imperfect as it might be, is a viable mechanism for maximizing prospects for European peace. If so, it has enormous value given the vast harm that had occurred during past European wars (particularly WW I and WW II). Certainly, the post-WW II narrative has been one of greater cooperation and prosperity. That narrative has benefited all of Europe.
    I don't see how the EU ever maintained peace. Western Europeans haven't had the ability to attack each other since WWII anyway.

    Nor did it help the monetary problems which should have been foreseen. In fact the EU and Western Europe were never very aggressive in freeing eastern Europe for the decades following WWII. The many hundreds of thousands of them marched against the USA during the Cold War, not against those who were controlling the Eastern part of the continent.A better name for this group would have been the Western European Union.

    Also, while continually critical of US policies during this period they relied on them almost 100% on them for their defense. Now they have little defense from a tired and mis-run America and are dependent on the good will of others to allow them their previously assumed freedoms.

    Once again Europe has enemies without and within. And once again they will not only misread their enemies, they will not even acknowledge them.

    Interesting article from The Spectator Europe's 'new world order' is letting Vladimir Putin run riot The Spectator
    Last edited by Grant; 03-08-14 at 07:21 PM.

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