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Thread: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Sorry, my ommision, I corrected it right away, it should read "at all responsible".
    OK, no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    As to that last, that's not a change and has been the case since 2003 (according to National Intel Estimates), so that has zero to do with the Obama admin.
    That's not my understanding. And to back it up, here's a part of an article from the NY Times from Oct 30, 2013

    “Twenty percent uranium and nuclear plates are being produced inside the country and there has never been a halt in the production trend,” the official, Ali Akbar Salehi, the head of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran, was quoted as saying by the Icana news agency, which is the mouthpiece of Iran’s Parliament.
    Here's the URL
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/31/wo...iran.html?_r=0

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    They can be back to 20% in under a month. Its a plot to wring more handouts from the west while very quickly being able to resume. North Korea did the EXACT same thing.
    Whether or not it's a plot, the program is not in FULL swing. That was the point.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Iran is doing the exact same thing now as it was before Obama. It has curtailed nothing. I suppose that Iran refining uranium to levels far above those needed for nuclear power, while developing nuclear detonators and missiles capable of nuclear delivery are purely coincidental, huh?
    The point is that there is NO WAY such an agreement could have been reached with Iran IF Obama lacked political and diplomatic capital.

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Weak leaders tend to run into problems.
    Having problems as President of the United States is no criteria for being a weak leader. It's a position where you are constantly confronted with problems.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    OK, no problem.



    That's not my understanding. And to back it up, here's a part of an article from the NY Times from Oct 30, 2013



    Here's the URL
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/31/wo...iran.html?_r=0
    Great, so I was correct. My original source for the 2003 info was the wiki:

    In a 2007 National Intelligence Estimate, the United States Intelligence Community assessed that Iran had ended all "nuclear weapon design and weaponization work" in 2003.[11] In 2012, U.S. intelligence agencies reported that Iran was pursuing research that could enable it to produce nuclear weapons, but was not attempting to do so.[12]

    In November 2011, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Board of Governors criticized Iran after an IAEA report concluded that before 2003 Iran likely had undertaken research and experiments geared to developing a nuclear weapons capability.[13] The IAEA report details allegations that Iran conducted studies related to nuclear weapons design, including detonator development, the multiple-point initiation of high explosives, and experiments involving nuclear payload integration into a missile delivery vehicle.[14] A number of Western nuclear experts have stated there was very little new in the report, that it primarily concerned Iranian activities prior to 2003,[15] and that media reports exaggerated its significance.[16] Iran threatened to reduce its cooperation with the IAEA.

    Nuclear program of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    However, the link below shows they've been trucking along at 20% and still are. The agreement to [slowly] ramp it down starting Jan this year was made between Iran and a group of nations, some which Iran respects and has good diplomatic relations with. Either way, this has nothing to do with Obama's efforts.

    Iran's Nuclear Timetable | Iran Watch

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The problem here is not that Obama is a weak leader, the problem, at least in this case, is that he made a serious error in judgement in two ways:

    1. He gave Victoria Nuland to much leeway
    2. He miscalculated how Putin would respond
    You think Nuland was calling the shots on such an important issue.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Don't kid yourself, the "missile shields" contain every bit as much, if not more, offensive capability as they do defensive.
    Yep. Which accounts for understandable stiff Russian opposition.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The point is that there is NO WAY such an agreement could have been reached with Iran IF Obama lacked political and diplomatic capital.
    Nonsense, the agreement wasn't reached between the US and Iran. Rather it was the P5+1 group of countries that made the agreement with Iran (Britain, China, France, Germany, Russia, and the United States). Some of those countries Iran respects diplomatically.

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Having problems as President of the United States is no criteria for being a weak leader. It's a position where you are constantly confronted with problems.
    Indeed, and his handling of those problems has been weak. Face it, he has about as much respect on the international scene as Carter did when he was POTUS (as in none).

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yep. Which accounts for understandable stiff Russian opposition.
    Precisely.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I disagree. What I described were errors in judgement. Even strong leaders make errors in judgement. Abraham Lincoln was a strong leader, but he misjudged the level of difficulty that was necessary to defeat the South.



    If lack of credibility were a symptom of weak leadership, then politicians in general are all weak leaders because, in general, they are liars. FDR was a strong leader, but he produced a totally fabricated map of Nazi plans for conquest of the US. Any person with sense should view what they say as suspicious.

    As far as diplomatic capital is concerned, Obama should be credited with making significant progress with diffusing tensions with Iran. If he had little or no diplomatic capital AND/OR little or no political capital that would simply not be possible.
    Conservatives are going to continue to insist that Iran is working on a nuclear bomb. Always keeping some bull**** threat out there is good for the MIC, simply.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Great, so I was correct. My original source for the 2003 info was the wiki:
    No you were not correct. I said Iran had stopped enriching uranium to 20 per cent. You said there had been no change since 2003. That wiki article states that:

    Iran had ended all "nuclear weapon design and weaponization work" in 2003.
    It doesn't say they stopped enriching uranium to 20 percent in 2003.

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    However, the link below shows they've been trucking along at 20% and still are.

    Iran's Nuclear Timetable | Iran Watch
    No, it doesn't say they are still enriching uranium to 20 percent. What is says is:

    On January 20, 2014, the IAEA verified that Iran was implementing the restrictions on its nuclear program set forth in the “Joint Plan of Action,” an interim accord between Iran and the P5+1 group of countries (Britain, China, France, Germany, Russia, and the United States). These restrictions include a suspension in the production of 20 percent enriched uranium, a freeze on manufacturing, installing, and operating additional centrifuges, and a commitment to either downblend or convert part of its 20 percent enriched uranium stockpile.

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