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Thread: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

  1. #171
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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia
    if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine


    Obama threatens to

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the time for warnings is over. The article says they are considering what steps to take. Why don't they already KNOW what steps to take? Why are no contingency plans for this in place already? If our intelligence didn't see this coming? Why not?

    I blame our intelligence community. We spend billions​ of dollars to get a heads up on this type action. What happened?
    The intelligence community has never been able to predict things accurately and its primary focus now is terrorism and domestic surveillance. The problem is as soon as the Cold War ended everyone forgot about Russia and how it views the world, which has never changed- many Eastern Europeans still live in the specter of the Cold War and WW2, the Russians believe that in order for their nation never to be attacked again like what Germany did to them in the last world war that they must have buffer states that are friendly to them and Ukraine is probably (along with Belarus) the most important of these- Russia will go to war to keep it in its sphere of influence and decades of peace will not change its views.

    The West has been lulled in a false sense of security over this and both the people and their governments have been spoiled by winning easy wars against inferior 3rd World militaries. The prospect of going up against an equal enemy has got a lot of people scared and many will be unwilling to sacrifice a lot of lives to defend Ukraine.

    The Ukrainians are also partly to blame for believing the rhetoric that there will be other nations that could help in in situations like these. I think other countries iwll now realize that if faced with war against a regional power the US will ultimately back off from their assurances and treaty obligations. In the end, nations cannot depend on others for their defense and the Ukrainians should not have given up their nukes- at one time their nuclear forces were larger than UK, France and China's combined but they gave it all up- and now its going to cost them.

    As an anecdote, I was in Estonia when the Russians invaded parts of Georgia and every single male citizen of that country got a letter from the government saying that they needed to be ready to be called up for active duty. The former Eastern bloc countries take incidents like this very seriously and there will no doubt be a new arms race in the region regardless of the outcome.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Only in your own mind. But I digress...

    While I firmly believe Putin has overstepped his bounds, I have to ask those who are insisting that the Obama Administration take stronger action beyond imposing sanctions against Russia, what exactly do you think should be done?

    And let's remember this: Other than Granada, Reagan never fired a shot at any other country, not even a single bullet in Russia's direction throughout the Cold War era. He got others to do it albeit very underhandedly (i.e., Iran/Contra...stinger missles smuggled into Pakistan so that the Afghan rebels could fight a more definitive war against their Russian invaders). Clinton eventually decided to take military action against the Kurds in Kosovo, but only with unilateral support. The only time Bush I led an attack against another country during his Presidency was when the Kuwuiti Prince asked for his help directly. And we all know what a mess GWB made with his pre-emptive strike against Iraq.

    So, I ask you folks, what exactly is Pres. Obama to do at this point considering that not one shot has been fired from a Russian gun aimed at a Ukrania citizen or its military? I get that Putin is taking similar actions as Hilter did when he invaded Poland and its citizens gave up without a fight. It's history somewhat repeating itself here. But again, other than marshalling international support and isolating Russia still further, what other action would you suggest be taken at this point?
    Nothing...we expect Obama to do nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Possible, I was reading or have read the depth is somewhere around 100M in one or the other and that is the average.
    The draft of an American aircraft carrier is around 11m +/-
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia
    if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine


    Obama threatens to

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the time for warnings is over. The article says they are considering what steps to take. Why don't they already KNOW what steps to take? Why are no contingency plans for this in place already? If our intelligence didn't see this coming? Why not?

    I blame our intelligence community. We spend billions​ of dollars to get a heads up on this type action. What happened?
    We have an administration led by a guy who thinks he is smarter than his Intelligence Community, and who is actively distrustful of his senior military and intelligence advisers, and apparently thinks, after having had the rug yanked out from under him multiple times, that Russia can be trusted to act as a good-faith player.

    What makes you think that the President didn't get any warning, vice simply ignoring the warnings that he got because A) he isn't terribly interested in national security outside of doing the minimum to make sure it doesn't become a problem (that's why we drone people) and B) isn't terribly interested in Ukraine? Heck, the assessment that Russia is probably going to pull something like this has been available in Open Source materials for some time now - he could have read the friggin Washington Post, if he actually wanted to spin up contingency planning.

    I sincerely doubt the President is or was surprised. I also sincerely doubt that he really cares. Which is why I sincerely doubt that we will do anything beyond rhetoric. Which is why (to answer your question) the future will be long on "threats" and "consultation with allies" and "opinions of the global community" and short on "actions."

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The draft of an American aircraft carrier is around 11m +/-
    No problem them, that I know of anyway.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    We have an administration led by a guy who thinks he is smarter than his Intelligence Community, and who is actively distrustful of his senior military and intelligence advisers, and apparently thinks, after having had the rug yanked out from under him multiple times, that Russia can be trusted to act as a good-faith player.

    What makes you think that the President didn't get any warning, vice simply ignoring the warnings that he got because A) he isn't terribly interested in national security outside of doing the minimum to make sure it doesn't become a problem (that's why we drone people) and B) isn't terribly interested in Ukraine? Heck, the assessment that Russia is probably going to pull something like this has been available in Open Source materials for some time now - he could have read the friggin Washington Post, if he actually wanted to spin up contingency planning.

    I sincerely doubt the President is or was surprised. I also sincerely doubt that he really cares. Which is why I sincerely doubt that we will do anything beyond rhetoric. Which is why (to answer your question) the future will be long on "threats" and "consultation with allies" and "opinions of the global community" and short on "actions."
    I like your take on it a lot.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I like your take on it a lot.
    Well thank you. I really think the President is just bored by it all. Other nations failed to realize the grandeur that was He, and adapt their behavior accordingly, embarrassing the predictions of the proponents of "Smart Power". It's all, therefore, rather a pain, a distraction from golf, and a distraction from trying to find decent wedge issues to rescue Democrats from Obamacare in the 2014 mid terms.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia
    if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine


    Obama threatens to

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the time for warnings is over. The article says they are considering what steps to take. Why don't they already KNOW what steps to take? Why are no contingency plans for this in place already? If our intelligence didn't see this coming? Why not?

    I blame our intelligence community. We spend billions​ of dollars to get a heads up on this type action. What happened?

    Who says they don't? Just because "your" eyes and ears don't know about it doesn't mean there isn't a plan in place already. This is a very fragile issue, and any hastily made action could be for the detriment of the world as a whole. Look at what Kennedy did in the face of near nuclear war, he had patience.
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    Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly.
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    God, how patient are Thy poor! These corporations and masters of manipulation in finance heaping up great fortunes by a system of legalized extortion,
    and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia
    if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine


    Obama threatens to

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the time for warnings is over. The article says they are considering what steps to take. Why don't they already KNOW what steps to take? Why are no contingency plans for this in place already? If our intelligence didn't see this coming? Why not?

    I blame our intelligence community. We spend billions​ of dollars to get a heads up on this type action. What happened?
    We have a weak president, and everyone knows it. This is what happens when we elect chumps like Obama or Carter. The world respects resolve and the threat of force.

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    Re: Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

    Putin is far too financially involved in trade with the G8.
    He is playing a game to see how much they need him and mother Russia.

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