Obama warns US will 'isolate' Russia if Putin doesn't pull back in Ukraine

iguanaman said:

The country will be a member of the EU before he knows it.

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Perhaps, but not with Crimea. Obama's mistake is not that he is doing nothing about the situation but that he is making empty threats while he does nothing. I'm all for ignoring the situation in Ukraine but I would recommend being quiet about it.

tecoyah said:

This seems clear in my mind (accurate or not), Putin and Russia decided to take a risk, which could have paid off nicely, yet miscalculated the reaction and noted the possible damage it would inflict. Upon seeing the damage (economic and military) the regime backed away to prevent inevitable destruction...or decimation.

Russia now faces trading property for economic survival....and in my view, will bow before the threat of western isolation.

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Good points. While I see that the Russian people dont want this invasion (the polls were 15% in favor from what I read in the Time mag article) Putin can do whatever he wants; seems to me he is doing this just to keep up his macho image and no economic sanctions will stop him.

iguanaman said:

LOL Putin invaded Georgia in 2008 and Bush did nothing. You really need to control your partisanship, you sound like a blind fool. "Russian interests" just took a HUGE hit with the loss of his Corrupt stooge in the Ukraine and there is nothing he can do about it. How smart is that? The country will be a member of the EU before he knows it.

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It seems you are unfamiliar with recent history. Do you recall the 'reset' Obama and Hillary announced with Russia?

That was dropping the sanctions against Russia for its invasion of Georgia which the Bush Administration and its Allies had initiated and also scrapped the frozen relations the same countries adopted as well.. Of course Obama also dropped the missile defense shield in Poland and Czechoslovakia, and all without concessions or promises or treaties or anything from the Russians. Of course, as a consequence, he is viewed by all who matter as an inept fool, though this was obvious from his earliest days as President.

Obama has not done as much for America and its Allies as he has done for America's enemies.BBC NEWS | Europe | Button gaffe embarrasses Clinton

Grant said:

No, it is not my dream at all but I feel it's the reality of the situation. Unless Putin moves further into The Ukraine it will soon be forgotten and attention will be quickly drawn elsewhere. The Crimea is his because it's not worth fighting about. No country will go to war these days over a matter of principle, unless they are directly involved.

Putin may well be 'a thug' but he is a smart thug who wants to advance Russian interests and will do whatever it takes to accomplish his goals. There doesn't appear to be another world leader who can now match him. Thatcher or Reagan would certainly have not allowed Russia to advance this far, and the previous US president would have done better as well.

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How would Mrs. T and Ronnie have stopped him?

fmw said:

Perhaps, but not with Crimea. Obama's mistake is not that he is doing nothing about the situation but that he is making empty threats while he does nothing. I'm all for ignoring the situation in Ukraine but I would recommend being quiet about it.

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Ridiculous. Completely ignoring an invasion of a country? Just pretend it's not happening? Yeah, that'll make America look great. Wow, listen to yourselves.

Deuce said:

Ridiculous. Completely ignoring an invasion of a country? Just pretend it's not happening? Yeah, that'll make America look great. Wow, listen to yourselves.

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It is neither our country nor an ally that is being invaded. We really need to stop trying to be the world's police force. Are you angry at China for staying out of it? I'm not. I'm respecting her for it. Do you really want us to spend resources every time a country misbehaves on the planet?

iguanaman said:

In other words "all hail the great leader Putin". Is that your dream? Do you really see it as just a match between Obama and that 3rd world thug? Putin will pull out of Crimea like the coward he is. He will keep his naval bases, they are part of the treaty. The Ukraine is rid of a corrupt leader and will soon be part of the EU. Putin lost big time, this is nothing but a ploy to save face.

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Hooray - a Prediction! I will happily bet you a year's platinum membership that this will not be seen by anyone other than those attempting to defend the Administration as a defeat for Putin, and that Russia will retain control over the Crimea.

fmw said:

It is neither our country nor an ally that is being invaded. We really need to stop trying to be the world's police force. Are you angry at China for staying out of it? I'm not. I'm respecting her for it. Do you really want us to spend resources every time a country misbehaves on the planet?

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Precisely. What does it matter to us what Russia does in its own back yard?

cpwill said:

Precisely. What does it matter to us what Russia does in its own back yard?

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Ukraine has been moved to our back yard?

fmw said:

Ukraine has been moved to our back yard?

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What do you think the possessive "its" in that sentence is referring to?

fmw said:

It is neither our country nor an ally that is being invaded. We really need to stop trying to be the world's police force. Are you angry at China for staying out of it? I'm not. I'm respecting her for it. Do you really want us to spend resources every time a country misbehaves on the planet?

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False dichotomy. Issuing statements doesn't "spend resources."

fmw said:

It is neither our country nor an ally that is being invaded. We really need to stop trying to be the world's police force. Are you angry at China for staying out of it? I'm not. I'm respecting her for it. Do you really want us to spend resources every time a country misbehaves on the planet?

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Perhaps there's a response in between.

Deuce said:

False dichotomy. Issuing statements doesn't "spend resources."

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It weakens our standing in the world and has the potential for bringing things like this closer to home. Putin knows Obama won't do anything. He will get more aggressive. Tactically it is better to keep your plans close to the vest. If you want to do something, then you do it. You don't rattle your sword and weaken your standing. Being loved as a country is meaningless. Being feared has meaning.

Everyone needs to remember one basic civics fact: the POTUS is similar to the President of Iran--he/she doesn't wield ultimate power.

Rex Tillerson is ultimately responsible for deciding how the US govt. handles this situation, and the POTUS must take orders from him.

Montecresto said:

How would Mrs. T and Ronnie have stopped him?

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Well it seems to me they would both have clearly recognized Putin for what he is and not the dropped the Bush freezes and sanctions, nor the missile defense shield in Eastern Europe, without something in return. Obama did all that only because Hillary and BHO wanted a re-start.

This is what happens when you place inexperienced Community Organizers and ex First Ladies in responsible positions.

Grant said:

Well it seems to me they would both have clearly recognized Putin for what he is and not the dropped the Bush freezes and sanctions, nor the missile defense shield in Eastern Europe, without something in return. Obama did all that only because Hillary and BHO wanted a re-start.

This is what happens when you place inexperienced Community Organizers and ex First Ladies in responsible positions.

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How would any of that have prevented Putin from securing his Crimean assets?

Montecresto said:

How would any of that have prevented Putin from securing his Crimean assets?

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We're getting too far off track here and to debate what leaders of the past might have done is impossible to predict. But if these two (out of three) broke the back of the communist world I'm sure they could have handled a thug like Putin. There were plenty of Putin types around during their day and they still came out on top.

iguanaman said:

LOL Putin invaded Georgia in 2008 and Bush did nothing. You really need to control your partisanship, you sound like a blind fool. "Russian interests" just took a HUGE hit with the loss of his Corrupt stooge in the Ukraine and there is nothing he can do about it. How smart is that? The country will be a member of the EU before he knows it.

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I'm not so sure about that.

Like most of you, I've been paying close attention to this Ukrainian situation and a few things just don't add up to me:

1. Why did President Viktor Yanukovych resign (or was he impeached)? Was it because the Ukrainian Parliament wanted to side with the EU or was it because their President wanted what the people wanted - to retain close ties with Russia.

2. America and the EU both receive lots of oil from the Ukraine. Wouldn't forging stronger relations w/the EU put Ukraine's oil in the EU's pocket?

3. If Russia were truly "occupying" the Ukraine, why don't the Ukrainian people seem worried? Just look at news footage from one week ago when armed Russian troops were in the streets. Ukrainian people walked by as if they were without a care in the world.

4. If the shipping ports in the Ukraine are leased from Russia, wouldn't Russia have the right to lay claim to them if their country is without a duly elected President or a successor who would keep the ports open in favor of Russian imports/exports?

5. If the EU stands to make significant gains from Ukraine's move closer to them in terms of foreign relations, why did SoS Kerry deliver a multi-billion dollar check to them in U.S. currency?

I think these questions and a lot more need to be answered. Something about this entire ordeal just doesn't seem right to me and I'm even more suspicious since coming across these two articles from infowars.com. Granted, I'm not prone to conspiracy theories, but the more I listen to what's being said, the more things just don't add up.

» Soros Activists Take Over Ukrainian Government Buildings Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

» Hidden Motives Behind the Ukraine-Russia Conflict Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Grant said:

We're getting too far off track here and to debate what leaders of the past might have done is impossible to predict. But if these two (out of three) broke the back of the communist world I'm sure they could have handled a thug like Putin. There were plenty of Putin types around during their day and they still came out on top.

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Ok, sure. Putin hasn't done anything wrong in the Ukraine, and he's no more a thug than George Bush was. And, nothing needs to be done, because theirs only a problem in some people's minds.

Objective Voice said:

1. Why did President Viktor Yanukovych resign (or was he impeached)? Was it because the Ukrainian Parliament wanted to side with the EU or was it because their President wanted what the people wanted - to retain close ties with Russia.

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Perhaps also he was a corrupt liar and a thief. Another colossal monument to Viktor Yanukovych

Objective Voice said:

I'm not so sure about that.

Like most of you, I've been paying close attention to this Ukrainian situation and a few things just don't add up to me:

1. Why did President Viktor Yanukovych resign (or was he impeached)? Was it because the Ukrainian Parliament wanted to side with the EU or was it because their President wanted what the people wanted - to retain close ties with Russia.

2. America and the EU both receive lots of oil from the Ukraine. Wouldn't forging stronger relations w/the EU put Ukraine's oil in the EU's pocket?

3. If Russia were truly "occupying" the Ukraine, why don't the Ukrainian people seem worried? Just look at news footage from one week ago when armed Russian troops were in the streets. Ukrainian people walked by as if they were without a care in the world.

4. If the shipping ports in the Ukraine are leased from Russia, wouldn't Russia have the right to lay claim to them if their country is without a duly elected President or a successor who would keep the ports open in favor of Russian imports/exports?

5. If the EU stands to make significant gains from Ukraine's move closer to them in terms of foreign relations, why did SoS Kerry deliver a multi-billion dollar check to them in U.S. currency?

I think these questions and a lot more need to be answered. Something about this entire ordeal just doesn't seem right to me and I'm even more suspicious since coming across these two articles from infowars.com. Granted, I'm not prone to conspiracy theories, but the more I listen to what's being said, the more things just don't add up.

» Soros Activists Take Over Ukrainian Government Buildings Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

» Hidden Motives Behind the Ukraine-Russia Conflict Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

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First of all Kerry delivered a 1 billion $ LOAN Guarantee not a "check". Second of all Yanukovych is a corrupt stooge hated by much of the population. Even Putin does not think he could be President again. As far as Ukraine oil sales, they are already selling to the EU and Russia sure doesn't need any from them.
Siding with a KGB thug against the rest of world opinion might seem cute to you but I find it very telling. There is nothing that you won't try and use against Obama even if it means siding with our age old enemy the USSR resurrected in Putin.

cpwill said:

Hooray - a Prediction! I will happily bet you a year's platinum membership that this will not be seen by anyone other than those attempting to defend the Administration as a defeat for Putin, and that Russia will retain control over the Crimea.

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So when the Ukraine joins the EU that will be a Putin victory? LOL Putin will retain control of his leased ports and Crimea will get a little more autonomy. But Putin's corrupt stooge is gone for good and the Ukraine will be firmly in Europe's sphere of influence. There is nothing Putin can do about it.

iguanaman said:

So when the Ukraine joins the EU that will be a Putin victory? LOL Putin will retain control of his leased ports and Crimea will get a little more autonomy. But Putin's corrupt stooge is gone for good and the Ukraine will be firmly in Europe's sphere of influence. There is nothing Putin can do about it.

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So... your argument is that Putin will get to keep everything he wants, and the stuff he doesn't want will try to run away... and that is a loss for him...

sure. you try to spin it that way. Whatever you need to do to protect the Dear Leaders' dithering impotence.

But I would put the odds of the Ukraine being allowed to join the EU at.... very, very, very low.

iguanaman said:

First of all Kerry delivered a 1 billion $ LOAN Guarantee not a "check". Second of all Yanukovych is a corrupt stooge hated by much of the population. Even Putin does not think he could be President again. As far as Ukraine oil sales, they are already selling to the EU and Russia sure doesn't need any from them.

Siding with a KGB thug against the rest of world opinion might seem cute to you ...

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Let me stop you right there, buddy. Don't even think of equating my questioning America's foreign interest in Ukraine with siding with Communism at any level. All I've said was things didn't seem right to me based on what I've been reading and what I've been hearing reported in the news regardless if it's Right-Wing or Left-Wing, domestic or foreign. I asked questions; doesn't mean I agree with what Russia's doing. Hell, I don't even agree with America's involvement there, but that has more to do with not understanding our role in this mess outside of access to oil than anything else.

And for the record, you're way off base with your "siding with the enemy" remark as most posters here would tell you I've defended the President against false accusations, misleading statements and misinformation from his opponents from Day-1. Of course, I've also condemned him when I thought he was wrong, too. You might want to reel that last part in a bit...get those emotions under control.

Sidenote: Did some more digging and learned that Spilna Sprava is a high-tech computer programming company that specializes in using open source software to create stock market analynic applications. If one of their venture capitalist and/or investors is, in fact, George Soros, then he's acting as more of a philanthropist than a political activist. This would appear to be an issue of "guilt by association" in my book. But I'll keep nosing around and see what else pops up. Of course, the unasked question is why was Spilna Sprava occupying the Justice Ministry building in the first place? What's the back story there?

iguanaman said:

Siding with a KGB thug against the rest of world opinion might seem cute to you but I find it very telling. There is nothing that you won't try and use against Obama even if it means siding with our age old enemy the USSR resurrected in Putin.

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Asking questions and trying to learn more about what's going on is not the same thing as siding with President Putin. That's not a fair assessment.