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Thread: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex...

  1. #51
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Both would be legal.
    You don't see where the "suspicion" transitions into obvious racial discrimination? A business that allowed a white individual wearing baggy clothes but denied a black individual dressed similarly on the basis of suspected gang activity would most certainly be guilty of racial discrimination.

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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    You don't see where the "suspicion" transitions into obvious racial discrimination? A business that allowed a white individual wearing baggy clothes but denied a black individual dressed similarly on the basis of suspected gang activity would most certainly be guilty of racial discrimination.
    As long as they are allowing black people without baggy clothes, it isn't racial. I agree there are some real difficulties with enforcement, but under the law, both are legal.
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: The Other Side of the Coin

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Plenty of your fellow liberals espouse that particular belief. I am aware its not universal, but it was specifically brought up in this thread by a liberal poster.
    And "plenty" of conservatives espouse the belief that every poor person is lazy or greedy, and that black people only voted for Obama because he's black.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    So then a business owner who discriminates against a gay person who supports gay marriage would be ok as long as they refuse service based on that persons support of gay marriage?

    Probably.

    Remember Public Accommodation laws (like New Mexico) require that a business provide the full range of goods and services, or as NM puts it differences either "directly or indirectly" in what they do.

    So, the hairdresser (one would assume) will be able to bring a long trail of (a) females, showing it wasn't based on gender, (b) Christians showing it wasn't based on religion. The same services were supplied to customers irregardless of gender or religion. On the other, using a baker of wedding cakes as a reference, the baker would need to provide witnesses (i.e. customer testimony) that show that they had supplied wedding cakes to same-sex Commitment Ceremonies/Weddings, not sold them brownies (a subset of services) but the same services (wedding cakes). If the baker can show that, ya he'd probably prevale on the political stance argument.

    See if the baker can show they had already provided EQUAL goods and services to homosexual couples for the same ceremonies, then it's demonstrable history of non-discrimination. On the other hand if the Baker was trying to use it a "ruse" to get around the law then it wouldn't fly.


    >>>>
    Last edited by WorldWatcher; 03-04-14 at 11:06 PM.

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    Re: The Other Side of the Coin

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Discriminating against homosexuals based on irrational prejudice hurts innocent people. Discriminating against jackass politicians who openly want to persecute you is entirely reasonable. Not all "personal beliefs" are morally equivalent.

    You can't possibly win your argument, Rathi. It's exactly the same thing. This hairdresser is refusing his services to someone that he had as a client for what he believes to be rational objections. The state of Arizona, through its elected representatives are actively seeking to protect the "other's not named gay" rights to their beliefs. You personally think that this is irrational, but on its face the very existence and pursuance of such laws demands that the thought process for needed to protect those that believe what they do as paramount to preserving the essential liberties of association. This is the irony of the Arizona Bill that this hairdresser has so eloquently placed on display for all to see; If the Bill was signed into law, his actions would not be criminal, or at the least require a civil remedy.

    Ain't irony great?


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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    So then yes. You'd be fine with businesses discriminating based on ones "beliefs".
    Speaking for myself. Absolutely. Repeal Public Accommodation laws and allow businesses to function on their beliefs. Private businesses should be able to model their business on their beliefs and if that includes decisions based on race, religion, ethnicity, sex, sexual orienation, etc. I'm fine with that.

    That DOES NOT mean that I will agree with their discriminatory practices. Television news, Radio, Newspapers, email, internet, review sites should also be free to highlight such practices to inform the public concerning the operation of the business.




    I also like the idea of a "Public Accommodation" certificate that must be displayed at each customer entrance, at each cash register (or on the menu for restraints), and posted next to the Business license (which must be on display). Such a certificate must be on file with the business licensing authority and available for review just as the license is. A business can select an option that indicates they will comply with providing equal and full access to all customers. On the other hand they can also select that they reserve the right to refuse customers based on what classes they choose and then are required to identify. This allows the public to be informed. If after filing such a certificate the business owner violates the conditions they set, only then would they be subject to penalties. OK, so a baker fills out the certificate and reserves the right to serve gays, that doesn't mean they HAVE to refuse gays, it just means they've reserved the right - they can refuse all services or just a subset, their choice.




    >>>>

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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex marriage* - NY Daily News

    Soooo, here it is, the other side of the coin. For all of you who cheered the veto of the Arizona protection of religion bill, we now have the flip side. Governor Martinez' hairdresser refuses to do business with her any more because of her views on gay marriage. Anyone want to try to defend this bigotry? After all the claims of Equality, it seems that equality really ISN'T the point after all.

    Personally, I'd sue his panties off just to make a point.
    On what grounds would he be able to sue? As a free agent working for himself, he has a right to pick and choose his clients. If Christians have a right to refuse service to gays, why wouldn't gays have the right to refuse service to those who view them as evil sinners and second-class citizens?

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    Re: The Other Side of the Coin

    Frankly, I wouldn't want someone cutting my hair that is this pissed off at me.
    Besides, closing your eyes in the cutting chair and BSing with your hairdresser is supposed to be fun, even a cheap psycho treatment .
    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    What he did is both illegal and wrong.
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    Re: The Other Side of the Coin

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The liberal idea that "all opinions are equally valid" is nonsense. The people against homosexuality cannot provide any evidence of why it is objectively harmful. By contrast, I can provide tangible examples of the harm caused by people discriminating against homosexuals. My arguments based on facts and logic do in fact trump irrational blind prejudice.
    Are you always so prone to painting with such a broad brush?
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    On what grounds would he be able to sue? As a free agent working for himself, he has a right to pick and choose his clients. If Christians have a right to refuse service to gays, why wouldn't gays have the right to refuse service to those who view them as evil sinners and second-class citizens?
    you are wrong. 2 businesses did that and they were sued over discrimination laws. the court said that their religious views did not matter.

    the Gov of NM is a catholic. therefore her religious beliefs say that marriage is between a man and a women. the dresser in question is discriminating against her religious beliefs.
    that is illegal.

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