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Thread: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex...

  1. #221
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    Ikari's Avatar
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I don't really follow what you're saying.
    You claimed that there are competing liberties, but that's only for specific cases. Being denied a cupcake, for instance, does not infringe upon your rights. But you are overlooking the very basic, and that is that an individual owns their own property and labor. Some dude owns that cupcake, some dude made that cupcake. His property and labor. You do not have inherent right to that cupcake. You do not own any other individual. If you claim right to someone's property and labor, you are trying to assert a level of ownership over that individual.

    There are certainly times when denial of service can really affect the rights of others, for instance emergency services. And in those specific circumstances we can weight the rights on hand and use government force to ensure that protection of rights and liberty. But denial of services doesn't innately infringe upon one's rights and when denial of service does not; say for a photographer or a cake, then it should be up to the property owner to decide what to do with their property and labor. You don't have any rightful claim to it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #222
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You claimed that there are competing liberties, but that's only for specific cases. Being denied a cupcake, for instance, does not infringe upon your rights. But you are overlooking the very basic, and that is that an individual owns their own property and labor. Some dude owns that cupcake, some dude made that cupcake. His property and labor. You do not have inherent right to that cupcake. You do not own any other individual. If you claim right to someone's property and labor, you are trying to assert a level of ownership over that individual.

    There are certainly times when denial of service can really affect the rights of others, for instance emergency services. And in those specific circumstances we can weight the rights on hand and use government force to ensure that protection of rights and liberty. But denial of services doesn't innately infringe upon one's rights and when denial of service does not; say for a photographer or a cake, then it should be up to the property owner to decide what to do with their property and labor. You don't have any rightful claim to it.
    Are you saying that anti-discrimination laws don't protect rights? I mean, you can certainly make a case for them being unconstitutional; but then you're saying that segregation is constitutional. You're also saying that Sherman is unconstitutional. (ie the government places anti-monopoly/collusion restrictions on private business for the greater good)

    I'd say that there is a compelling societal benefit to compel all businesses to not discriminate among clients. Can a private country club be whites only?

    What you do with your own property is your own business; but when you engage in business you are entering the public sphere. It's not just "your" property. You're running on publicly funded infrastructure trading in public spaces with publicly financed police and emergency services etc...


    So unless you're claiming that segregation is constitutional, there are definitely competing rights.

  3. #223
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    Tim the plumber's Avatar
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    Re: The Other Side of the Coin

    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate View Post
    Sue him if he wants to be treated equelly and fairly by people who are against his lifestyle, he should then treat those with a lifestyle or opinion he is against equally as the children in the USA say the golden rule? I'm gay and I think this guy is an idiot and he is one of the many reasons that kind of slow down progress in the LGBT community

    Yeah, he could just have spent the time talking about how he was made to feel like a second class person instead of the usual "where are you going on holiday".

    Got the cameras in as well.

  4. #224
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    Ikari's Avatar
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Are you saying that anti-discrimination laws don't protect rights? I mean, you can certainly make a case for them being unconstitutional; but then you're saying that segregation is constitutional. You're also saying that Sherman is unconstitutional. (ie the government places anti-monopoly/collusion restrictions on private business for the greater good)

    I'd say that there is a compelling societal benefit to compel all businesses to not discriminate among clients. Can a private country club be whites only?

    What you do with your own property is your own business; but when you engage in business you are entering the public sphere. It's not just "your" property. You're running on publicly funded infrastructure trading in public spaces with publicly financed police and emergency services etc...


    So unless you're claiming that segregation is constitutional, there are definitely competing rights.
    Anti-discrimination laws do not universally uphold all rights of all parties. In the exercise of these laws there are circumstances where it actually infringes upon rights.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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