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Thread: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex...

  1. #121
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    Re: The Other Side of the Coin

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I'd really like to know where you get this "gays can't sign up on eHarmony" crap from. Do a bunch of pink bells and lisp-filled whistles go off if they put in a credit card number?
    Where did I say that a "gays can't sign up on eHarmony" I said "eHarmony still doesn't provide services for same-sex matching directly" (See Post #106) and they didn't at the time as they would not match men to men or women to women. Anyone could probably setup and account (paid or unpaid), but they would not do the matching - until they setup the companion site.

    So, sure gays can sign up, but if I remember the case correctly (I mean it was a number of years ago). The custom software would not "match" males to males (or females to females). Gender preference wasn't one of the items that was selectable it was hard coded into the algorithm. IIRC a gay man or lesbian could sigh up, but they would only be matched with the opposite gender. Now they have "Compatible Partners" which does offer same gender matching, the link is right on their website.



    >>>>

  2. #122
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    Re: The Other Side of the Coin

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    It's very hypocritical to say a photographer or baker can refuse to service a customer because they don't believe in Same-sex Civil Marriage and to then turn around and say that a hairdresser can't refuse service they do believe in Marriage Equality.


    >>>>
    And how does the other way go? When people say that the photographer or baker cannot refuse service, but this hairdresser can?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: The Other Side of the Coin

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Where did I say that a "gays can't sign up on eHarmony" I said "eHarmony still doesn't provide services for same-sex matching directly" (See Post #106) and they didn't at the time as they would not match men to men or women to women. Anyone could probably setup and account (paid or unpaid), but they would not do the matching - until they setup the companion site.

    So, sure gays can sign up, but if I remember the case correctly (I mean it was a number of years ago). The custom software would not "match" males to males (or females to females). Gender preference wasn't one of the items that was selectable it was hard coded into the algorithm. IIRC a gay man or lesbian could sigh up, but they would only be matched with the opposite gender. Now they have "Compatible Partners" which does offer same gender matching, the link is right on their website.



    >>>>
    Then I guess there was no need for a lawsuit, right? Or is it just okay when a website catering to the fringe does it?

  4. #124
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    It's a tricky concept because there are competing liberties at work.

    Say you owned a bar. A group of skinheads moves in and wants to make your bar their neighborhood bar. It's fairly likely that a constant skinhead presence at your bar is going to negatively affect other customers, harming your business. It would seem obvious that a business should be well within their rights to kick the skinheads out. But can a business owner kick someone out because they suspect someone may be racist? Put another way, a bar is going to be equally adverse to being frequented by black gang members. But can they deny someone entrance because they're black and wear saggy pants. Wouldn’t that likely be racial discrimination?

    What we're really asking is where my right to be included meets your right to exclude me. And I don't think that line is very clear.
    That's not it at all. What you're asking is ownership of another man's property and labor. What it should be is when one's right to their own property and labor comes into conflict with the rights of others. Say for emergency care, the right to life. Then you have competing rights and you can say the right to life outweighs the right to property. What people don't like about the fundamental is that there are some services which don't involve rights. Say a bakery. And they want that bakery to serve whom they want when they want. So they have to make flip flopping claims to allow some but exclude others because the ramifications of freedom are too great for them to bear. But no man own's another man's property or labor. And that's the base.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #125
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    On what grounds would he be able to sue? As a free agent working for himself, he has a right to pick and choose his clients. If Christians have a right to refuse service to gays, why wouldn't gays have the right to refuse service to those who view them as evil sinners and second-class citizens?
    But you've picked the other side? Yes? The baker cannot discriminate. So what you need to explain is why discriminate is OK so long as it's done according to your standards.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #126
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But you've picked the other side? Yes? The baker cannot discriminate. So what you need to explain is why discriminate is OK so long as it's done according to your standards.
    What baker? I said nothing about a baker, and that isn't the topic of this thread, so I don't "need to explain" anything.

    We're talking about a hair stylist who works for himself being able to choose his own clients. On what basis could he be sued? That was my question. If you don't have an answer, then I suggest you move on.

  7. #127
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    What baker? I said nothing about a baker, and that isn't the topic of this thread, so I don't "need to explain" anything.

    We're talking about a hair stylist who works for himself being able to choose his own clients. On what basis could he be sued? That was my question. If you don't have an answer, then I suggest you move on.
    *sigh*

    It's like people think arguments exist in vacuum. I asked a question, because the question is important to the legitimacy of your current claim. The case of the baker, who is a self-employed individual blah blah blah, you know the story yes? I believe you came down stating that the baker could not refuse service, yes? See that "?", that means it's a question. It's called a question mark. Keep an eye out for it in the future, it will help ya when reading posts. If you contend that the baker had no right to discriminate, then YOU need to show in this case why the hairdresser can. The OP is made along the previous made arguments that the baker and others could not discriminate against homosexuals. This is also why previous posts and topics are in play. Really don't see why that had to be explained.

    So it's dependent upon the answer. You said "If Christians have a right to refuse service to gays, why wouldn't gays have the right to refuse service to those who view them as evil sinners and second-class citizens?". Which is true, but if that's not your argument (that Christians have the right to refuse service to gays), then you've made a dishonest post since you deflect away from the original context of the OP. Which is why I stated what I stated. If you don't think the Baker can refuse service, then you must argue for why this guy can. Not Young Earth Creationist this away by deflection and dishonesty.

    So what is it? Did the Baker have right to refuse service? If yes, then there's no issue. If you think the baker can, then it's consistent to contend that the hairdresser can as well. If no, then you have a contradiction and trying to turn the argument around does not erase that contradiction.

    Do you get it now? It's really not tough.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #128
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    *sigh*

    It's like people think arguments exist in vacuum. I asked a question, because the question is important to the legitimacy of your current claim. The case of the baker, who is a self-employed individual blah blah blah, you know the story yes? I believe you came down stating that the baker could not refuse service, yes? See that "?", that means it's a question. It's called a question mark. Keep an eye out for it in the future, it will help ya when reading posts. If you contend that the baker had no right to discriminate, then YOU need to show in this case why the hairdresser can. The OP is made along the previous made arguments that the baker and others could not discriminate against homosexuals. This is also why previous posts and topics are in play. Really don't see why that had to be explained.

    So it's dependent upon the answer. You said "If Christians have a right to refuse service to gays, why wouldn't gays have the right to refuse service to those who view them as evil sinners and second-class citizens?". Which is true, but if that's not your argument (that Christians have the right to refuse service to gays), then you've made a dishonest post since you deflect away from the original context of the OP. Which is why I stated what I stated. If you don't think the Baker can refuse service, then you must argue for why this guy can. Not Young Earth Creationist this away by deflection and dishonesty.

    So what is it? Did the Baker have right to refuse service? If yes, then there's no issue. If you think the baker can, then it's consistent to contend that the hairdresser can as well. If no, then you have a contradiction and trying to turn the argument around does not erase that contradiction.

    Do you get it now? It's really not tough.
    Slow day, eh? Have to yank up week-old posts to nitpick in order to create an argument where none exists. My question: On what basis could the hairdresser be sued?

    If you can't answer that because you're too busy obfuscating and trying to drag other topics into this thread, then I'm not going to waste my time with you. :2bye:

  9. #129
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Slow day, eh? Have to yank up week-old posts to nitpick in order to create an argument where none exists. My question: On what basis could the hairdresser be sued?

    If you can't answer that because you're too busy obfuscating and trying to drag other topics into this thread, then I'm not going to waste my time with you. :2bye:
    No, your contention was based on ""If Christians have a right to refuse service to gays, why wouldn't gays have the right to refuse service to those who view them as evil sinners and second-class citizens?".

    The fact of the matter is, you cannot argue your points. Happens, I'm not faulting you, just pointing out the obvious.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #130
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    Re: Gay hair stylist drops New Mexico governor as client because she opposes same-sex

    I'm all for private businesses (for the most part) being able to offer or refuse services as they see fit.

    Photographer doesn't want gay customers? Fine, whatever, that's cool by me.

    Hairdresser doesn't want customers that are against gay marriage? Fine, whatever, that's cool by me.

    No one should be able to see either of them for that, in my perfect world.
    Last edited by OldWorldOrder; 03-11-14 at 07:59 PM.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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