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Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

You seem to trust whatever the Russians say and do. I bet if they occupied Copenhagen you'd be cheering them on as well. :roll:

Hardly. What I do trust is the facts we know.

1) Crimea was handed over to the Ukraine in the 1950s. Before that it was Russian. Hell the people of Genoa have a better claim to Crimea than Ukraine (it was their colony for hundreds of years)
2) The population of Crimea is mostly Russian, speaks Russian and associates it self with Russia.
3) The Crimea has considerable self rule within Ukraine. This self rule has been under serious threat from especially the people behind the new Kiev government.
4) The new Ukrainian government claims a lot of things, but there is no evidence to back these claims up. And in some cases there is actually the opposite... as with this supposed threat from the Russian government to surrender.
5) The Ukrainians have tried many times go back on their deal with Russia on the Black Sea Fleet. Why is that?

So two wrongs make a right? Did you just admit that Russia did in fact violate Ukraine's national sovereignty?

Again how can you violate national sovereignty of a country in an specific area only, where you are the one that has always been in full control.. either directly or indirectly through local government that sympathises with you? You do realize that the government in Kiev has zero control over Crimea right, both before the crisis and now? The elected officials in Crimea and police/para military dont recognize the new Kiev government and feel very threatened by the rise of the new government, of which there are parts that are ultra nationalists and neo nazi.. please note I said some, not all. Considering the previous actions by these people in Kiev over the last 20 years, then I fully understand why the people in the Crimea feel threatened.

Look at this way.. if say Texas was ordered by the Federal government to cede powers to Washington.. dont you think they would rebel also?
 
Popular support, in America, for Russian aggression.

First of all, the people that support what Russia's doing view it as a response to a crisis on their border in a country that they have physical and tangible assets in that need to be secured. Secondly they have significant support amongst Ukrainians, and finally, Russia's action there is not against America, so I doubt you understand the meaning of treason.
 
Your argument was that Ukraine was a part of Russia about 60 years ago and so Russia can do what it chooses to there, Im simply using your own logic since Germany conquered Denmark a decade earlier.

And it fell apart for you because you dont seem to know history. The Crimea has always been a battle ground, but over the last 200 or so years it has been for the most part the Russians that controlled it. Now in the 1950s under the Soviet Union, the area was moved over to the Ukraine for some insane reason, despite the fact that it had no cultural or linguistic links to the Ukraine. The area remained mostly Russian despite this move.

Now in the Danish case, we remained Danish despite the occupation and remained very different than the German occupiers. We did not turn to German and forget our Danish language, and the occupation only lasted 4 years or so. So the whole comparison is... stupid.

You seem to interpret English differently than I. When I see another countries' military taking over the territory of another thats an invasion in my books, I dont know what you call it over there.

But they have not taken over the territory.. the Russians do NOT control the Crimea. They have taken some strategic points yes, but it is the Crimean's themselves that control most of the territory. That they are allied with the Russians is also just a fact, and can lead to the confusion that the Russians have taken over everything... the locals after all speak Russian.

Wow. You definitely have an Orwellian view of things- Ukraine gets invaded and they are trying for war. LOL

Well some of the rhetoric coming out Kiev and Washington seems to point that way.

There are Spanish speaking people in America but we dont go to war over it.

Well ...... there has been rhetoric going on about invading Mexico, laying land minds and what not.. hardly the best of relations between parts of your population and the Spanish speaking population.
 
I believe the Ukrainian troops were unarmed and attempting to develop dialogue with the Russians...Commander to commander.

They were. There was 3-6 Russian's being approach by 20+ unarmed Ukrainians. A few warning shots were fired when the Ukrainians refused to stop.

They were likely trying to find a diplomatic way to protect their families (who are on the base), and diffuse a bad situation.

According to the reports, they wanted to get their jobs back. Now I dont know if they had been laid off by the government in Kiev, the local pro-Russian government, or kicked out by the Russian military.
 
When I see another countries' military taking over the territory of another thats an invasion in my books, I dont know what you call it over there.

So, US had been invading several countries these years?!
 
Kerry is a decorated combat veteran of the Vietnam era. He is definitely not a coward and you probably confused him with the first coward GW Bush (AWOL/deserter?). I think he is a sellout of the scumbag variety to even carry the USA gov't litany of lies regarding Ukraine. We caused the unconstitutional coup with CIA intrigue and all you have to do to prove it is listen to Victoria Nuland's voice stating their man would be "Yats" after the coup is completed. Gee,, what a coinky-dink that she would utter the name of the new leader 3 weeks before the event. Wowser, deja vu, familiar spirits, or CIA inside information. Gosh, just what could it be?

But then who were those people in Independence Square being shot by the police?
 
First of all, the people that support what Russia's doing view it as a response to a crisis on their border in a country that they have physical and tangible assets in that need to be secured. Secondly they have significant support amongst Ukrainians, and finally, Russia's action there is not against America, so I doubt you understand the meaning of treason.

The people who spin it in Russia's favor are the folks that hate America and want to see Russia take t lead on the world stage. They're also the same people who would sabotage America--if given the chance--in a war with Russia.
 
The people who spin it in Russia's favor are the folks that hate America and want to see Russia take t lead on the world stage. They're also the same people who would sabotage America--if given the chance--in a war with Russia.

Lies, why are you so bitter. No Americans hate America. Some of us hate Americas foreign policy. You should stop the spin. We would prefer there is no war with Russia, you on the other hand want to park a carrier fleet in the Black Sea and provoke one.
 
so I doubt you understand the meaning of treason.

Why do you hate America you Communist? Don't you know us true blue good white male American-born Protestant secular liberal patriots who most certainly are not fat have no need for your "definitions" or "logical thought" or "intelligence". Those are all Communist America-hating fat lies.

Now go away you fat Communist.
 
They were. There was 3-6 Russian's being approach by 20+ unarmed Ukrainians. A few warning shots were fired when the Ukrainians refused to stop.



According to the reports, they wanted to get their jobs back. Now I dont know if they had been laid off by the government in Kiev, the local pro-Russian government, or kicked out by the Russian military.
I cannot find these "Reports"...please help me to be informed.
 
In the case of Syria, that is not true. The SNC made clear its intention for a transitional democratic government with human rights.

I'm aware of informal remarks, but nothing formal and certainly no declarations or other formal documents to that end. Moreover, I'm not aware of any commitments to respect the interests of major regional U.S. allies, including Israel and its security needs.

Leaving Syria to burn is a weak and unforgivable move by the West.

Alternatives to U.S. military intervention existed but were not seriously pursued. One option was a total arms embargo to all the parties when the first violence began breaking out. At that time, the lack of weapons created a large barrier to widespread conflict. That option wasn't pursued. Instead, each side's backers poured weapons into Syria, both directly and indirectly and parties with varied interests (Shia states on one side and Sunni states on the other, along with non-state actors) played a leading role. As a result, each of what became warring parties pursued maximum demands. They increasingly became uncompromising and saw outcomes as mutually exclusive. Assad insisted that the oppostion were terrorists who had no place in Syria's political future. His foes insisted that he and his government had no place in Syria's future. Preconditions were established, diplomacy was suffocated, and the possibility of a political settlement destroyed with both the dictator and his foes partners in that crime. Both parties also engaged in massive brutality and crimes against humanity, only inhibited by the limits of their capabilities.

It astounds me that some who would tacitly support gassing the capital cry out against Russia in Ukraine, as if anything of the sort has happened.

I don't support Russia's actions in Crimea. I also don't support the brutality that has occurred in Syria. Syria's civilian population, not any of the warring combatants, are the victims of its sectarian conflict. Both Assad and his foes are the co-authors of Syria's terrible human tragedy. Neither of the warring parties deserves much sympathy.
 
I'm aware of informal remarks, but nothing formal and certainly no declarations or other formal documents to that end.

The SNC has always and does declare intentions of democracy in Syria. I don't know who has told you otherwise. Go to their website, ask any Western government. Check the wiki.

Both Assad and his foes are the co-authors of Syria's terrible human tragedy. Neither of the warring parties deserves much sympathy.

You continue to ignore the SNC.
 
But then who were those people in Independence Square being shot by the police?

Please show the links regarding the people being shot. The first few days of protests, the police were unarmed and many police were injured and simply listed as injured in Western Media as if it were protestors that were injured. After rocks, firebombing (molotov cocktails) and some shootings the Police were armed and started shooting back. It is very likely that a rogue element of protestors was responsible for the firebombing, rock throwing, shootings and molotov cocktails, but you will not hear that from the "Mighty Wurlitzer," the mainstream media presstitutes that frame the USA news.
 
Please show the links regarding the people being shot. The first few days of protests, the police were unarmed and many police were injured and simply listed as injured in Western Media as if it were protestors that were injured. After rocks, firebombing (molotov cocktails) and some shootings the Police were armed and started shooting back. It is very likely that a rogue element of protestors was responsible for the firebombing, rock throwing, shootings and molotov cocktails, but you will not hear that from the "Mighty Wurlitzer," the mainstream media presstitutes that frame the USA news.

Yep, that's why Hillary Clinton said for real news, go to Al Jazeera.
 
Please show the links regarding the people being shot. The first few days of protests, the police were unarmed and many police were injured and simply listed as injured in Western Media as if it were protestors that were injured. After rocks, firebombing (molotov cocktails) and some shootings the Police were armed and started shooting back. It is very likely that a rogue element of protestors was responsible for the firebombing, rock throwing, shootings and molotov cocktails, but you will not hear that from the "Mighty Wurlitzer," the mainstream media presstitutes that frame the USA news.
Ukraine's bloodiest day: dozens dead as Kiev protesters regain territory from police | World news | The Guardian
 
They tried the peaceful unarmed route, the protesters became violent. They shouldn't have done that. The whole thing sucks and it was for the wishes of half of the Ukrainians because there is about a 50/50 split in the loyalty.
 
That Guardian article managed to leave out rock throwing, molotov cocktails (firebombs), and police injuries in Tuesday, and only talks about Thursday, and I repeat, no mention of rock throwing or fire bombing. Do you think they probably just overlooked the firebombing and police injuries? I think not. It's known as framing the News.

Did you look at the video?
 
That Guardian article managed to leave out rock throwing, molotov cocktails (firebombs), and police injuries in Tuesday, and only talks about Thursday, and I repeat, no mention of rock throwing or fire bombing. Do you think they probably just overlooked the firebombing and police injuries? I think not. It's known as framing the News.

And shooting protesters is called murder.
 
They tried the peaceful unarmed route, the protesters became violent. They shouldn't have done that. The whole thing sucks and it was for the wishes of half of the Ukrainians because there is about a 50/50 split in the loyalty.

Where are you getting your information?
 
John Kerry, a member of skull and bones, does not care about aggression or humanity.
 
And shooting protesters is called murder.

No, your video is Thursday and I'm talking about Tuesday and that would be Tuesday. If you throw rocks, nasty words, molotov cocktails at cops in the USA, a whole gang of thenm will shoot you center mass, so I'm not all that surprised that somebody got shot and the USA should be brought before the UN to explain how they let this Covert CIA insurrection get out of control. Don't you think? I mean, $5 billion should buy a better organized protest than that.
 
There's no doubt that Saddam was an awful person, but the rationale of "Saddam treats his own people like crap" only came up after the "Saddam is a threat to the U.S." rationale turned out to be a pile of steaming cow crap. AND he was one of the few people in the region capable of keeping Iran in check. AND he kept the sectarian violence in his country to a minimum. Sometimes, the devil you know is better than the one you don't, and as big of a swinging dick as Saddam Hussein was, we'd be better off now with him in power and contained than dead and his region fully destabilized.

Simply untrue. Bill Clinton made regime change in Iraq a US policy, and it was well known how savagely Saddam treated his people, he let them starve and die of disease while using the money earmarked from limited oil sales to build palaces. Its important you get your facts straight, your revisionism is stark.
 
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