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Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

Montecresto said:
No, I'm just saying there's no consensus. The country has a split loyalty.
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The US has split loyalty on many things. There is also law and Constitution that is SUPPOSED to be followed.
 
PeteEU said:
Again Crimea was Russia up to 1954. And the Russians are not a minority in Crimea.. they are the huge majority.
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That was over half a century ago. Go back 60 years and Denmark was a part of the greater German Reich, perhaps the Danes should give it over to Germany.

Crimea has their own legislative and have considerable self-rule. The government in Kiev has been slowly but surely chipping away at that self rule, which is part of the over all problem.
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So? That does not justify invasion by another country.

It is all paranoia, I dont deny that. But politically the Ukrainian nationalists want Sevastopol and the Russian Black Sea fleet, because they see it as Ukraine's since the fall of the Soviet Union. They also were not happy when the Ukraine gave up its nukes.
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Paranoia is no justification for war.

And anyone with half a brain also can see that they could just as well be Russian Ukrainians serving in the Ukrainian military/police... since they have the same uniforms. It is in no way as simple as you want it to be and has nothing to do with the Russian propaganda machine.
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Wrong. Ukrainian army has different camos and different helmets.

Fact is the Crimea has been run by the Russian speaking population there for decades, so their own police and para-military units not only look Russian but speak Russian.
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Name one paramilitary unit that was operating in Crimea which is not controlled by Ukraine prior to this incident please. The only troops with military weapons in Crimea prior to this was either Russian military or Ukrainian military.

You seem to have eaten the propaganda coming out of Kiev. You do know that the Ukrainian Navy Chief has pledged his and his fleets allegiance to the Russians right? Why would local troops not do the same? Ever think of that?
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I dont see what that has to do with an invasion.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
at what point do we address the weakness russia is showing in its aggressive approach to dealing with the ukraine
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How do you plan to address that? They are going to do what they want because they dont fear the repercussions. It still boils down to fear of military action, even today in the world.
 
iguanaman said:
No but this was.... apparently GW's "Grave Concern" gave Putin the wrong message. Why else would he have though he could get away with it? He should have yelled "bring it on" and nuked his ass. We would all probably be dead but at least he would have showed some balls.



Read more: Georgia 'overrun' by Russian troops as full-scale ground invasion begins | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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Im sorry, its 6 years later. Obama is the President. We dont have time machines. What now?
 
PeteEU said:
Russia has not invaded Ukraine. How can you invade a country where you already had 20+k troops, military bases and so on and there is an agreement for this?

And ultimately what can the west do.. nothing that is with in a sane world. Of course we could nuke em, but why end the world now when we are having so much fun destroying it?
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Simply incorrect. And they have told the Ukrainian military to surrender, or face military action. The deadline has already expired...
 
PeteEU said:
No, I am saying you cant "invade" a country if you already are there. And it has not been confirmed that they are Russian troops.. you seem to forget that over 90% of the population in the Crimea are Russian speaking and culturally Russian.
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Simply untrue. When they move out of previously agreed bases and capture govt buildings, and make ultimatums to surrounded forces-it indeed in an invasion.

On March 3, more than 500 opponents of the new authorities in Kiev attempted to seize the Odessa Regional State Administration building.[167][168] They demanded that a referendum on the establishment of an "Odessa Autonomous Republic" be held.[167] As the protesters began to break windows and enter the building, Oblast Chairman and Party of Regions official Mykola Leonidovych Skoryk spoke to the crowd, saying that the police could not allow an "assault" on the RSA, and that Ukrainians "must live peacefully in a single state." Protesters shouted "traitor!" and "Judas!" at him.[167] Meanwhile, Reuters reports that anti-Kiev protesters have broken into the first floor of the Donetsk RSA building.[169]

According to Ukrainian officials, Ukrainian troops stationed in Crimea were urged to surrender by 4 March at 5 a.m. (0300 GMT) or face an armed confrontation via an ultimatum issued by Alexander Vitko, the commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.[170] This ultimatum was however denied by Russian officials.[171]

On the same day, Russian soldiers seized a ferry terminal in the city of Kerch, the easternmost point of Crimea.[55]
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2014 Crimean crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
north korean said:
Yes, Russia is using force to solve the issue, but what else it can do? They are desperate.
The Russians have been feeling betrayed by the West since the end of the cold war, when most Russians wanted to join the West, later only found that the Western politicians, instead of helping and encouraging reconciliation between the West and Russia and between former USSA members, still treat Russian as "No1 foe" and explore the differences between Russians and ethnic groups and incite "new revolutions" to further weaken Russia.
Russians never blame everything on the West, they know the long historical reasons for the conflict, but when any bias and unfairness from the West on Russia's national interest just remind them of Bosnia, Kosovo, Georgia....
Russians no longer trust the West, so this time they feel the urgency to use force to resolve the issue once for all.
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Russia's the victim here-got it. :doh
 
PeteEU said:
There is a massive difference.

First of all the population of Cuba are not American or even have English as their first language.

Secondly the Cuban American agreement pre-dates the present Cuban regime but Cuba cant do anything about it. The US is occupying GITMO supposedly legally but in reality you bullied your way to the base when you supported the puppet dictator of Cuba at the time and are paying next to nothing for it.

Now in the Crimea you an area that was given to the Ukraine in 1954 or so by the Soviets. The population is 90% Russian, the main language is Russian and they have considerable self rule in the first place. They actually dont want to be part of the Ukraine and never have been. There is also an agreement between the Ukraine and Russia for Russian troops to be in the Crimea and operate there pretty much independently because of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.



In some ways yes...but with a much much bigger majority of Russians than there was German's in Sudetenland.
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What part of this makes it ok to violate a nations territorial integrity and violate its national sovereignty?
 
PeteEU said:
Again Crimea was Russia up to 1954. And the Russians are not a minority in Crimea.. they are the huge majority.



Crimea has their own legislative and have considerable self-rule. The government in Kiev has been slowly but surely chipping away at that self rule, which is part of the over all problem.



It is all paranoia, I dont deny that. But politically the Ukrainian nationalists want Sevastopol and the Russian Black Sea fleet, because they see it as Ukraine's since the fall of the Soviet Union. They also were not happy when the Ukraine gave up its nukes.



And anyone with half a brain also can see that they could just as well be Russian Ukrainians serving in the Ukrainian military/police... since they have the same uniforms. It is in no way as simple as you want it to be and has nothing to do with the Russian propaganda machine. Fact is the Crimea has been run by the Russian speaking population there for decades, so their own police and para-military units not only look Russian but speak Russian. You seem to have eaten the propaganda coming out of Kiev. You do know that the Ukrainian Navy Chief has pledged his and his fleets allegiance to the Russians right? Why would local troops not do the same? Ever think of that?
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:roll:

So the nazi's were justified in taking over danzig, eh?

Gda
 
Deuce said:
The US, UK, And France at boycotting the G8 until Russia is either booted or pulls out of Ukraine. Russia being out of G8 means they can't veto a sanction.
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That would be the G8. There is nato, the un, and the eu to come. The bottom line is putin has calculated that the benefits outweigh the risks-and if that turns out true, there will be more of this. China, is also watching-they want taiwan, south korea, and other areas-and will take them if they know the consequences are not dear. The world still only fears violence-welcome to it.
 
Montecresto said:
Russia will quickly secure the country, install a friendly government and be gone. If the US went in, it would cost a trillion dollars, kill 4,500 soldiers, take a decade, and when we left it would be in worse shape then when we arrived. Better just let Putin handle this.
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I expected no less.
 
US Conservative said:
Im sorry, its 6 years later. Obama is the President. We dont have time machines. What now?
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We can remind ourselves daily how lucky we are that Bush is no longer President. 8 years of hell ending with a financial nightmare.
 
iguanaman said:
We can remind ourselves daily how lucky we are that Bush is no longer President. 8 years of hell ending with a financial nightmare.
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Perhaps you should remind yourself that we live in the here and now. Theres a reason Bush has a higher approval rating in the world than Obama.
 
US Conservative said:
Perhaps you should remind yourself that we live in the here and now. Theres a reason Bush has a higher approval rating in the world than Obama.
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LOL In your dreams....
Bush will go down in history as the worst President in modern times and he is the reason the GOP will not regain the Whitehouse for many more years. At least you should hate him for that.
 
iguanaman said:
LOL In your dreams....
Bush will go down in history as the worst President in modern times and he is the reason the GOP will not regain the Whitehouse for many more years. At least you should hate him for that.
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Bush had his issue-but at least the world knew he meant what he said.
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Kerry is doing his job by acting shocked, as Putin tests the real resolve of the G8.
He is playing a game.
 
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