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Thread: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

  1. #331
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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's a myth told to intellectual children. The things Saddam did do not constitute stability. They constitute mass slaughter in desperate attempt to maintain absolute (and horribly barbaric) rule. Accepting that rule, in lieu of a handful of terrorists, is irrational. The source of such insanity can be a few angles... anti-war, religion, partisanship, just plain bonkers and/or a combination of any of these and other factors. However, the bottom line remains the same: those things do not, have not and never will represent stability in any intellectually honest sense.
    He most definitely also played a destabilizing role (Kuwait, his earlier nuclear activities that precipitated an Israeli air strike, etc.). In addition, while the changed balance of power acted as a catalyst for the reawakening sectarianism, the structural roots preceded the war.

    IMO, the U.S. would do well to consolidate its security commitments and collaboration with Egypt, Israel, and Jordan. Remarkably, even as it has a fresh opportunity for a viable Egyptian partner, its policy approach is largely indifferent to the new government and wholly inadequate. It continues to press Israel when, in fact, Israel has demonstrated far more flexibility than the Palestinians. When the Palestinians finally agree that Palestinian refugees and their descendants have a right to settle in the historic land but specifically the new Palestinian state and not Israel, then progress on that front might be feasible. So long as they insist on a "right of return," a final settlement won't be feasible. That's the big barrier to peace, not a lack of unilateral Israeli concessions.

    Finally, I believe the U.S. should be a little less idealistic and naive when it comes to sectarian uprisings. Time and again, it has believed that uprisings in Libya, Syria, etc., were democratic in nature. They were not. Syria's initial protests may have been. Those who took up arms had only sectarian ambitions. In neither state did they lay out goals that were compatible with U.S. regional interests and that omission speaks for itself. Not even the most "moderate" of the Syrian revolutionaries--and the quotes are deliberate--even signaled privately or publicly that they would establish any kind of partnership with the U.S., cooperate on combating terrorist movements hostile to U.S. interests and allies, or conclude peace with Israel. How Syria resolves its internal affairs is and should be its issue. None of the parties to the sectarian conflict rise to the level that would justify U.S. support. All have demonstrated excesses in brutality to the extent that their capabilities allow. The U.S. issue should concern working to ensure that no matter the outcome, American regional interests and allies won't be worse off.

  2. #332
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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Yeah ... that WAS a bit cringe-worthy, wuhnit?

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    No, FEAR is what kept Saddam in control. Yes, he was an ASSHOLE. Nobody is arguing that he wasn't.

    Were there Al Qaeda fighters bombing random civilians in Iraq when Saddam was in power? NO.
    Were Christians being killed in Iraq when Saddam was in power? NO.
    Was there rampant sectarian violence in Iraq when Saddam was in power? NO.
    Did Iran attempt to fulfill its nuclear ambitions when Saddam was in power? NO.

    That's ALL I'm saying. So take your "Advocating Genocide" garbage and cram it.



    Bye.

    And, btw, regardless of your opinion of Iraq, there is no way in hell you're going to convince me it was worth a trillion dollars and nearly 5,000 American lives to try to "fix." GOOD DAY.
    Apologists for Bush's Iraq lie can never concede this.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #334
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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Finally, I believe the U.S. should be a little less idealistic and naive when it comes to sectarian uprisings. Time and again, it has believed that uprisings in Libya, Syria, etc., were democratic in nature. They were not. Syria's initial protests may have been. Those who took up arms had only sectarian ambitions.
    Of course the terrorists are the first to get arms, as such logistics are a matter of course for Iran and other suppliers. Where are those interested in democracy to acquire arms in a dictatorship slaughtering civilians with the military? In the case of Syria, a lack of support from the West resulted in a power vacuum that was occupied by radical elements. Perhaps you have another idea as to where and how democratic uprising are to be armed, with the West standing aside.

    In neither state did they lay out goals that were compatible with U.S. regional interests and that omission speaks for itself.
    In the case of Syria, that is not true. The SNC made clear its intention for a transitional democratic government with human rights.

    Not even the most "moderate" of the Syrian revolutionaries--and the quotes are deliberate--even signaled privately or publicly that they would establish any kind of partnership with the U.S., cooperate on combating terrorist movements hostile to U.S. interests and allies, or conclude peace with Israel.
    See above.

    How Syria resolves its internal affairs is and should be its issue. None of the parties to the sectarian conflict rise to the level that would justify U.S. support. All have demonstrated excesses in brutality to the extent that their capabilities allow. The U.S. issue should concern working to ensure that no matter the outcome, American regional interests and allies won't be worse off.
    Leaving Syria to burn is a weak and unforgivable move by the West.

    It astounds me that some who would tacitly support gassing the capital cry out against Russia in Ukraine, as if anything of the sort has happened.

  5. #335
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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Kerry is a joke and symbol of cowardice and incompetency.
    Kerry is a decorated combat veteran of the Vietnam era. He is definitely not a coward and you probably confused him with the first coward GW Bush (AWOL/deserter?). I think he is a sellout of the scumbag variety to even carry the USA gov't litany of lies regarding Ukraine. We caused the unconstitutional coup with CIA intrigue and all you have to do to prove it is listen to Victoria Nuland's voice stating their man would be "Yats" after the coup is completed. Gee,, what a coinky-dink that she would utter the name of the new leader 3 weeks before the event. Wowser, deja vu, familiar spirits, or CIA inside information. Gosh, just what could it be?

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So you have to have a reason now, even made up ones, to invade countries?
    It's the new way.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Apologists for Bush's Iraq lie can never concede this.
    Perhaps you missed the memo. Saddam faked a wmd program. He had everyone fooled, most importantly the Iranians. It backfired on him. That's no one else's fault.

  8. #338
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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's the new way.
    And what is the old way?

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Well that airbase where the "first shot" was given, it seems that the Ukrainian men wanted their jobs back, and are now cooperating with the Russians.

    As for the defection

    BBC News - New head of Ukraine's navy defects in Crimea

    I dont know what information is coming to American news viewers, but I suspect it is rather selective when it comes to what is actually happening and very pro Kiev and anti Russian.. that is the usual bull**** coming from American media. Now I despise Putin but the real question is would you rather have the devil you know, than the devil you dont? On that front Putin and Russia do have a point.. there some elements of the Ukranian opposition that are not exactly kosher (yes that is a pun since they are anti-semitc racists).

    Fact is the situation on Crimea is hardly black and white. You have the new government in Kiev trying to assert its power over a part of Ukraine that has a lot of self determination. The same people that are in the new government tried not long ago to curb this self determination and that has resulted in some of (if not a majority) the local police, para-military and other security forces to jump ship and pledge intelligence to the Russian back locally elected parliament and Prime Minister. Hell there is a story that some of these forces were actually dismissed by the people in Kiev and are now demanding their jobs back.. see the airbase incident.

    It is basically a huge mess, and the fire is being fanned from all sides including the US and the US right wing. Some commentators here in Europe are pointing out that the rhetoric coming from Washington is more designed for the domestic politics that actual real world politics, since the US has very little trade with Russia in the first place and any sanctions or visa restrictions would probably hurt the US more than Russia.
    Hillary Clinton told our congress that for "real news" we must go to Al Jazeera. That American news was failing in that. And she stated that we are in an information war, and that we are loosing that war. Your impression of what Americans are hearing is correct, save the ones that are listening to real news.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Hillary Clinton told our congress that for "real news" we must go to Al Jazeera. That American news was failing in that. And she stated that we are in an information war, and that we are loosing that war. Your impression of what Americans are hearing is correct, save the ones that are listening to real news.
    Monte keeps telling this lie. Hillary was talking about propaganda.

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