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Thread: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

  1. #321
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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    The fact that you're dishonest enough to claim I am "arguing for genocide" tells me all I need to know about you.
    Ignorance. Genocide is what kept Saddam in control of Iraq, what gave his absolute authority and an ability to stomp out any and all opposition. When you say things were better under Saddam you are -in fact- arguing for genocide as some kind of short-sighted, warped and sick version of "stability".

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    True enough, but it's working a lot worse now. Saddam was a horrible man, but the region is worse off with him gone.
    No one can be this ignorant.

    Good day.

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Ignorance. Genocide is what kept Saddam in control of Iraq, what gave his absolute authority and an ability to stomp out any and all opposition. When you say things were better under Saddam you are -in fact- arguing for genocide as some kind of short-sighted, warped and sick version of "stability".
    No, FEAR is what kept Saddam in control. Yes, he was an ASSHOLE. Nobody is arguing that he wasn't.

    Were there Al Qaeda fighters bombing random civilians in Iraq when Saddam was in power? NO.
    Were Christians being killed in Iraq when Saddam was in power? NO.
    Was there rampant sectarian violence in Iraq when Saddam was in power? NO.
    Did Iran attempt to fulfill its nuclear ambitions when Saddam was in power? NO.

    That's ALL I'm saying. So take your "Advocating Genocide" garbage and cram it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No one can be this ignorant.

    Good day.
    Bye.

    And, btw, regardless of your opinion of Iraq, there is no way in hell you're going to convince me it was worth a trillion dollars and nearly 5,000 American lives to try to "fix." GOOD DAY.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Well that airbase where the "first shot" was given, it seems that the Ukrainian men wanted their jobs back, and are now cooperating with the Russians.

    As for the defection

    BBC News - New head of Ukraine's navy defects in Crimea

    I dont know what information is coming to American news viewers, but I suspect it is rather selective when it comes to what is actually happening and very pro Kiev and anti Russian.. that is the usual bull**** coming from American media. Now I despise Putin but the real question is would you rather have the devil you know, than the devil you dont? On that front Putin and Russia do have a point.. there some elements of the Ukranian opposition that are not exactly kosher (yes that is a pun since they are anti-semitc racists).

    Fact is the situation on Crimea is hardly black and white. You have the new government in Kiev trying to assert its power over a part of Ukraine that has a lot of self determination. The same people that are in the new government tried not long ago to curb this self determination and that has resulted in some of (if not a majority) the local police, para-military and other security forces to jump ship and pledge intelligence to the Russian back locally elected parliament and Prime Minister. Hell there is a story that some of these forces were actually dismissed by the people in Kiev and are now demanding their jobs back.. see the airbase incident.

    It is basically a huge mess, and the fire is being fanned from all sides including the US and the US right wing. Some commentators here in Europe are pointing out that the rhetoric coming from Washington is more designed for the domestic politics that actual real world politics, since the US has very little trade with Russia in the first place and any sanctions or visa restrictions would probably hurt the US more than Russia.
    I believe the Ukrainian troops were unarmed and attempting to develop dialogue with the Russians...Commander to commander. They were likely trying to find a diplomatic way to protect their families (who are on the base), and diffuse a bad situation. Here in the U.S. much of the news is coming from both BBC reporters and left/right wing sources....though admittedly the right wing tends to report on what the left produces as they do not have much of a presence overseas.

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Were there Al Qaeda fighters bombing random civilians in Iraq when Saddam was in power? NO.
    Were Christians being killed in Iraq when Saddam was in power? NO.
    Was there rampant sectarian violence in Iraq when Saddam was in power? NO.
    Did Iran attempt to fulfill its nuclear ambitions when Saddam was in power? NO.
    Because Saddam killed, on average, only counting the 4 biggest events, 50k per year. There was pretty much no one left to kill (or do business with), even if an organization managed to get three or four people together before being caught and slaughtered.

    Christians were not killed because only Saddam was allowed to kill people, and he did so sometimes by towns of 10k. A handful of Christians doesn't exactly compare to 200k Kurds or 50k Marsh Arabs.

    Iran was attempting to fulfill its nuclear ambitions when Saddam was in power. Who told you otherwise?



    You want genocide, invading neighbors, 17 unscr violations, a fake wmd program, institutionalized rape and widespread intentional starvation for the people of Iraq. You think that's better than terrorists. Obviously, in you, the terrorists have won.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 03-04-14 at 09:18 AM.

  6. #326
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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Oh?.......................
    I was being facetious.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
    -FDR

  7. #327
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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Ignorance. Genocide is what kept Saddam in control of Iraq, what gave his absolute authority and an ability to stomp out any and all opposition. When you say things were better under Saddam you are -in fact- arguing for genocide as some kind of short-sighted, warped and sick version of "stability".
    I might be mistaken, but I believe his point was that the region was more stable. Certainly, the changes in Iraq led to a regional power vacuum and made it easier for Iran to seek regional hegemony. That vacuum has also been filled by numerous jihadist groups. It's too soon to know, but some arguments might even be made that it provided one regional shock that helped reanimate historic ethnic and religious rivalries.

  8. #328
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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I might be mistaken, but I believe his point was that the region was more stable.
    That's a myth told to intellectual children. The things Saddam did do not constitute stability. They constitute mass slaughter in desperate attempt to maintain absolute (and horribly barbaric) rule. Accepting that rule, in lieu of a handful of terrorists, is irrational. The source of such insanity can be a few angles... anti-war, religion, partisanship, just plain bonkers and/or a combination of any of these and other factors. However, the bottom line remains the same: those things do not, have not and never will represent stability in any intellectually honest sense.

  9. #329
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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Eh? Denmark has never been part of a Greater German Reich. Denmark was invaded and occupied by the Germans under WW2, but it has never been under German control otherwise. Plus the Danes dont speak German, nor do they have "German cultural" links.
    Your argument was that Ukraine was a part of Russia about 60 years ago and so Russia can do what it chooses to there, Im simply using your own logic since Germany conquered Denmark a decade earlier.

    Again I dispute that there is an actual invasion.
    You seem to interpret English differently than I. When I see another countries' military taking over the territory of another thats an invasion in my books, I dont know what you call it over there.

    Tell that to both sides. Right now it is the Ukrainians that are the ones trying for war it seems.
    Wow. You definitely have an Orwellian view of things- Ukraine gets invaded and they are trying for war. LOL

    And military camo's can be bought anywhere. Hell I would say they look like US troops as well... does that mean the US has invaded Crimea?
    Youre obviously clueless when it comes to recognizing uniforms, I wonder if you can tell the difference between a pajama and a business suit.

    LOL okay, keep your blinders on then. The fact that it shows the internal divide between the Ukrainian speaking and Russian speaking peoples is not important?
    There are Spanish speaking people in America but we dont go to war over it.

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Can we trust the Ukrainians? How about not trusting anyone?
    You seem to trust whatever the Russians say and do. I bet if they occupied Copenhagen you'd be cheering them on as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    I dunno, your country does it all the time, so maybe you can answer that yourself.
    So two wrongs make a right? Did you just admit that Russia did in fact violate Ukraine's national sovereignty?

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