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Thread: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine | Reuters

    "You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text," Kerry told the CBS program


    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
    Shut up Kerry, shut up Kerry, shut the hell up you idiot! We shouldn't be involved in this at all, not even at the negotiating table. Someone muzzle the moron.

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    What would the USA gain by going to war with Russia over the Ukraine?
    Not a god damned thing.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    So what's the big problem then?
    The Black Sea Fleet and the strategic value of Sevastopol.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Speaking of the Black Sea Fleet

    Ukraine: Russia Delivers 'Assault Storm' Deadline

    Russia's fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 3am to surrender or face a military assault, according to Interfax.

    The ultimatum came from the commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet Alexander Vitko, which has a base in Crimea where Russian forces are now in control.

    According to the agency, it reads: "If they do not surrender before 5am (3am GMT) tomorrow, a real assault will be started against units and divisions of the armed forces across Crimea."

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post

    In some ways yes...but with a much much bigger majority of Russians than there was German's in Sudetenland.
    So you were happy with Hitler's annexation of the Sudetenland and eventual takeover of Czechoslovakia? I see.

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    So you were happy with Hitler's annexation of the Sudetenland and eventual takeover of Czechoslovakia? I see.
    Which clearly was ok, since the majority of the population of Sudentenland was German already.

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    First off it has far from been established that it is "foreign" troops. And how can it be "foreign troops" when 90% of the population is Russian?
    Because they happen to be in Ukraine which isnt Russia. Let me ask you, if Turkish troops took over Berlin since Germany has a Turkish minority you wouldnt have a problem with that either?

    Secondly the regional government is actually pro-Russian and according to the reports, the men with guns who took over the buildings, did so to protect them from troops and armed men from Kiev.
    Thats the news according to the Russians, but Crimea is a part of Ukraine and their capital is Kiev isnt it?

    The whole situation is driven by fear and that fear is based on past history. The people in Crimea dont trust Kiev because Kiev has removed and tried to remove even more rights form the area. It use to be very independent from the rest of the Ukraine but Kiev has been for years been pulling back powers. And that has all to do with one thing... the military port of Sevastepol... presently under Russian control and wanted badly by the Ukrainian nationalists. That is what Russia is protecting.
    How exactly were the Ukrainian nationalists threatening the port of Sevastopol? There was no military buildup by the Ukrainians prior to the Russian takeover.

    No and no. Russia has admitted it moved some troops to the Crimea yes, but it has not said that those troops have taken over the government buildings or anything else.

    Also the so called analysts are just that.. analysts and often with a hidden agenda, especially the American and British ones. Some are even pushing for war for **** sake..
    Anyone with half a brain knows they are Russian troops, they have the same uniform and they are armed with military weapons, if they were vigilantes they wouldnt be that well armed or equipped. It seems to me you have completely swallowed the Russian propaganda machine hook, line and sinker. Congrats.

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Because they happen to be in Ukraine which isnt Russia. Let me ask you, if Turkish troops took over Berlin since Germany has a Turkish minority you wouldnt have a problem with that either?
    Again Crimea was Russia up to 1954. And the Russians are not a minority in Crimea.. they are the huge majority.

    Thats the news according to the Russians, but Crimea is a part of Ukraine and their capital is Kiev isnt it?
    Crimea has their own legislative and have considerable self-rule. The government in Kiev has been slowly but surely chipping away at that self rule, which is part of the over all problem.

    How exactly were the Ukrainian nationalists threatening the port of Sevastopol? There was no military buildup by the Ukrainians prior to the Russian takeover.
    It is all paranoia, I dont deny that. But politically the Ukrainian nationalists want Sevastopol and the Russian Black Sea fleet, because they see it as Ukraine's since the fall of the Soviet Union. They also were not happy when the Ukraine gave up its nukes.

    Anyone with half a brain knows they are Russian troops, they have the same uniform and they are armed with military weapons, if they were vigilantes they wouldnt be that well armed or equipped. It seems to me you have completely swallowed the Russian propaganda machine hook, line and sinker. Congrats.
    And anyone with half a brain also can see that they could just as well be Russian Ukrainians serving in the Ukrainian military/police... since they have the same uniforms. It is in no way as simple as you want it to be and has nothing to do with the Russian propaganda machine. Fact is the Crimea has been run by the Russian speaking population there for decades, so their own police and para-military units not only look Russian but speak Russian. You seem to have eaten the propaganda coming out of Kiev. You do know that the Ukrainian Navy Chief has pledged his and his fleets allegiance to the Russians right? Why would local troops not do the same? Ever think of that?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    So you were happy with Hitler's annexation of the Sudetenland and eventual takeover of Czechoslovakia? I see.
    Yes and no. It is not an easy question to answer, especially when it involves Hitler.

    Fact is, after WW1 the western allies ****ed up. They created Czechoslovakia and with that the Sudetenland problem. They forced millions of Germans to live under someone else and that caused discrimination and what not. The Allies created the situation that was used as an excuse to take over Sudentenland. But just as wrong as it was for Hitler to go in as he did and what he did, it was also wrong by the Allies to create Czechoslovakia and split people with a border.

    Now I had rather seen that the people voted on what country they wanted to be part off, but that kind of democracy did not exist back then. It does now... which could be a solution to the Ukrainian problem.

    The problem is, the Soviets gave the Crimea to Ukraine in the 1950s. This is now coming back to bite everyone in the ass. The people of the Crimea are far more Russian than Ukrainian and the strategic value of Sevastopol is massive for Russia. Add to that discrimination against the Russian speaking people of Ukraine.. real or not, and you have a powdercake ready to explode.

    As I have stated before.. the Crimea has considerable self determination within Ukraine. They have their own parliament and local government. The Government in Ukraine have tried to curb this independence for years, that is a fact. The Crimea also has the Black Sea Fleet and only port that Russia has that does not freeze over during the winter. Now the Ukrainian Nationalists have always said that they believed that the Black Sea Fleet was theirs after the fall of the USSR. The Russians of course disagreed and a deal was made which gave the Russians access to Sevastopol and the Black Sea Fleet.

    And that is what all this is about... it is about Russian speaking peoples wanting to remain close to Russia and not Kiev and is that wrong? The people in Sudenteland wanted the same thing after all, but because Hitler "took" it then suddenly it was bad? Why should the people pay for the mistakes of the past... the Allies in Sudenteland case and the USSR in the Crimea case?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Again Crimea was Russia up to 1954. And the Russians are not a minority in Crimea.. they are the huge majority.



    Crimea has their own legislative and have considerable self-rule. The government in Kiev has been slowly but surely chipping away at that self rule, which is part of the over all problem.



    It is all paranoia, I dont deny that. But politically the Ukrainian nationalists want Sevastopol and the Russian Black Sea fleet, because they see it as Ukraine's since the fall of the Soviet Union. They also were not happy when the Ukraine gave up its nukes.



    And anyone with half a brain also can see that they could just as well be Russian Ukrainians serving in the Ukrainian military/police... since they have the same uniforms. It is in no way as simple as you want it to be and has nothing to do with the Russian propaganda machine. Fact is the Crimea has been run by the Russian speaking population there for decades, so their own police and para-military units not only look Russian but speak Russian. You seem to have eaten the propaganda coming out of Kiev. You do know that the Ukrainian Navy Chief has pledged his and his fleets allegiance to the Russians right? Why would local troops not do the same? Ever think of that?
    I wonder if the EU didn't know how the Russian population felt and Putin would probably react or whether they understood the implications of their treaty proposal.

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