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Lois Lerner does about-face, will give Hill testimony on IRS scandal

Slyhunter said:
No, he did not ask a question of Lerner. He asked a question of the committee not the same thing. He was supposed to be asking questions of the witness, not his fellow "judges".
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cummings indicated he was directing his question to the committee and its chair
for some reason, the reich wing seems to believe that issa is entitled to fashion his questions and those of the other committee members
so much for the reich wing's belief in a representative democracy
 
Slyhunter said:
She can't claim the 5th if their are no crimes that she could be incriminated for.
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sure she can
and so can you
she may not have any idea where they are headed with this investigation. so, it would be smart - which is why she has counsel - to exercise her Constitutional right against self incrimination
why is the reich wing so opposed to Constitutional rights and the exercise of them?
 
Cummings can grand stand on nearly any network he wants ... partisan dinner theatre was lol worthy at it's obviousness. You still on about justbubba? Hope you get paid well for it...
 
Fletch said:
What does ones "side" have to do with anything? You would think EVERY side would want to make sure there is no wrongdoing going on in the nations most powerful bureaucracy, and denounce the fact that the key figure in the whole thing refuses to talk for fear of incriminating herself. The idea that you would defend this person simply because she happenes to be on your team is very short sighted and foolish.
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we, as citizens, would hope that our government's interest would be to ferret out wrongdoing
but what we have seen by issa's actions is an attempt to find something to blame on the president and his administration
anyone, even a fool, can see that this is about gotcha politics and has nothing to do with the truth
if it were actually about the truth, then we would have accepted what the republican appointed IG said his investigation revealed: the actions of the IRS were not politically motivated
 
Slyhunter said:
No, he did not ask a question of Lerner. He asked a question of the committee not the same thing. He was supposed to be asking questions of the witness, not his fellow "judges".
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She was clearly out of order and Issa showed great tolerance in not throwing her out. He gave her several instances to make her point and instead she made a speech.

The chairman, rightfully, adjourned the meeting; what happened after that is not part of the official record and he antics following where no more than a spoiled, ignorant, propagandist throwing a petty temper tantrum, only more civil than the Obama apologists on this forum.

Based on his support anymore, it is clear he is an incompetent blow hard pimping the needs of the poor so he can travel the globe like a rock star. Since the beginning, when he first surfaced at the DNC convention in '04, his supporters have NEVER been able to reasonably discuss the issues, but instead scream "racist!" at the slightest criticism. And since then the thinking Democrats have run to the woods since Obamacare, Benghazi, and Syria, leaving only shallow and selfish name callers to explain such complex laws as Obamacare.

It is a wonder that Obama's support is still at 40% with clamoring lemmings rewriting not only history, but the daily news.

Please, anyone, show me where in all of that ignorant woman's speech any sentence that be ended with a question mark....or is grade five parsing of a sentence beyond the intellectual capacity of Obama's fawning fans?
 
justabubba said:
we, as citizens, would hope that our government's interest would be to ferret out wrongdoing
but what we have seen by issa's actions is an attempt to find something to blame on the president and his administration
anyone, even a fool, can see that this is about gotcha politics and has nothing to do with the truth
if it were actually about the truth, then we would have accepted what the republican appointed IG said his investigation revealed: the actions of the IRS were not politically motivated
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That is clearly a lie.

You cannot substantiate it, and is a deliberate attempt to deceive.

There has not been ONE action of that committee that has indicated the witch hunt you claim, in fact the obstruction of the committee's work by the Democrats is leading people to suspect Obama had a personal involvement in this.

With the lies, deliberate distortions and obstruction, trying to suppress evidence before its been heard it is difficult to come to any conclusion other than that there is a campaign to prevent the truth from being found. If Obama's supporters actually trusted him, really believed hew was not, then they would be arrogantly demanding "bring it on"....not wallowing in lies and distortions and petty, childish name calling.
 
Fearandloathing said:
That is clearly a lie.

You cannot substantiate it, and is a deliberate attempt to deceive.

There has not been ONE action of that committee that has indicated the witch hunt you claim, in fact the obstruction of the committee's work by the Democrats is leading people to suspect Obama had a personal involvement in this.

With the lies, deliberate distortions and obstruction, trying to suppress evidence before its been heard it is difficult to come to any conclusion other than that there is a campaign to prevent the truth from being found. If Obama's supporters actually trusted him, really believed hew was not, then they would be arrogantly demanding "bring it on"....not wallowing in lies and distortions and petty, childish name calling.
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A Commitee is equally represented by members of both parties, the logical assumption is that they cooperate.
 
Fearandloathing said:
That is clearly a lie.

You cannot substantiate it, and is a deliberate attempt to deceive.

There has not been ONE action of that committee that has indicated the witch hunt you claim, in fact the obstruction of the committee's work by the Democrats is leading people to suspect Obama had a personal involvement in this.

With the lies, deliberate distortions and obstruction, trying to suppress evidence before its been heard it is difficult to come to any conclusion other than that there is a campaign to prevent the truth from being found. If Obama's supporters actually trusted him, really believed hew was not, then they would be arrogantly demanding "bring it on"....not wallowing in lies and distortions and petty, childish name calling.
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here is all the proof that any reasonable person should require, to demonstrate issa's interest is in sullying the white house rather than reaching the truth:

the republican appointed IG stated that his investigation revealed there was NO political influence for the actions taken by the IRS employees
 
upsideguy said:
No, I am saying the idea that someone making the point that Obama is "half-black" is both ludicrous and racist...
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No, you are saying that you agree with the Louisiana bus driver in 1960 that Obama is all black.
 
justabubba said:
here is all the proof that any reasonable
person should require, to demonstrate issa's interest is in sullying the white house rather than reaching the truth:

the republican appointed IG stated that his investigation revealed there was NO political influence for the actions taken by the IRS employees
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Watch list with Conservative sounding names were the only ones directed to Washington.

And how would ANY IG know whether or not the motivations are political if the Democrats and those at the center of this issue are lying and obfuscating ?

Why would Lerner lie about the low level rogue employees ? 24 5th ammendment pleas later, NO ONE whos not trying to cover Obama's ass that js, believes she is innocent.
 
Fenton said:
Watch list with Conservative sounding names were the only ones directed to Washington.

And how would ANY IG know whether or not the motivations are political if the Democrats and those at the center of this issue are lying and obfuscating ?

Why would Lerner lie about the low level rogue employees ? 24 5th ammendment pleas later, NO ONE whos not trying to cover Obama's ass that js, believes she is innocent.
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Agreed. It seems to be the only thing that makes sense.

I figure there's a direct line to the White House she's hiding, and the pay off is going to be big for her from various administration types, once they are out of office.

Would seem to me that all the congress members, regardless of political party, would be hot after this issue, abusing the IRS into enforcing the administration in-power's preferences as to political affiliations. If the congress members aren't interested in that, then the administration in power pretty much has permission by precedence, the precedence that's just been set.

No. This issue, and it's investigation, MUST be perused, and present and future administrations MUST be denied the use of the IRS as a political enforcement arm. Anything less is unconscionable, unacceptable.
 
Slyhunter said:
If she wasn't guilty of something she wouldn't need to pleed the 5th.
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Not entirely true. If you knew that there was wrong doing in a business or agency you were responsible for and that you could be held accountable for it, even if you did not initiate it, the smart thing to do is to the take the Fifth and force your interrogators to give you immunity before testifying. Then you would have opportunity to clear your name with no chance you could be blind sided.

And does anybody with a brain believe she isn't under enormous pressure by the Obama Administration to keep her mouth shut?

It's that Catch 22 scenario of the public servant who has the obligation to honestly disclose what he/she is doing in the people's interest vs that same person's constitutional right not to incriminate himself/herself.

If the Senate wants her to testify, they need to give her immunity. What do they have to lose? And I'm quite sure the Obama Admiistration is doing whatever it can to prevent them doing that too.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Not entirely true. If you knew that there was wrong doing in a business or agency you were responsible for and that you could be held accountable for it, even if you did not initiate it, the smart thing to do is to the take the Fifth and force your interrogators to give you immunity before testifying. Then you would have opportunity to clear your name with no chance you could be blind sided.

And does anybody with a brain believe she isn't under enormous pressure by the Obama Administration to keep her mouth shut?

It's that Catch 22 scenario of the public servant who has the obligation to honestly disclose what he/she is doing in the people's interest vs that same person's constitutional right not to incriminate himself/herself.

If the Senate wants her to testify, they need to give her immunity. What do they have to lose? And I'm quite sure the Obama Admiistration is doing whatever it can to prevent them doing that too.
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The better question is why is Issa not offering immunity in exchange for testimony?
 
justabubba said:
sure she can
and so can you
she may not have any idea where they are headed with this investigation. so, it would be smart - which is why she has counsel - to exercise her Constitutional right against self incrimination
why is the reich wing so opposed to Constitutional rights and the exercise of them?
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Exactly. Issa has essentially said that he wants to hang someone's head on a pole. Why would anyone want to testify before a committee that has no desire to get to the truth, but instead wants to collect scalps for political theatre?
 
justabubba said:
here is all the proof that any reasonable person should require, to demonstrate issa's interest is in sullying the white house rather than reaching the truth:

the republican appointed IG stated that his investigation revealed there was NO political influence for the actions taken by the IRS employees
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It seems here are many Dems who would prefer a one-party state.
 
Mithros said:
Exactly. Issa has essentially said that he wants to hang someone's head on a pole. Why would anyone want to testify before a committee that has no desire to get to the truth, but instead wants to collect scalps for political theatre?
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"Essentially said"? That means nothing, nor does the rest of your silly post. Please go by what people actually said so that a proper debate can take place.
 
6 later and Republicans still can't get over Obama winning.
 
eohrnberger said:
Fenton said:
Watch list with Conservative sounding names were the only ones directed to Washington.

And how would ANY IG know whether or not the motivations are political if the Democrats and those at the center of this issue are lying and obfuscating ?

Why would Lerner lie about the low level rogue employees ? 24 5th ammendment pleas later, NO ONE whos not trying to cover Obama's ass that js, believes she is innocent.
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Agreed. It seems to be the only thing that makes sense.

I figure there's a direct line to the White House she's hiding, and the pay off is going to be big for her from various administration types, once they are out of office.

Would seem to me that all the congress members, regardless of political party, would be hot after this issue, abusing the IRS into enforcing the administration in-power's preferences as to political affiliations. If the congress members aren't interested in that, then the administration in power pretty much has permission by precedence, the precedence that's just been set.

No. This issue, and it's investigation, MUST be perused, and present and future administrations MUST be denied the use of the IRS as a political enforcement arm. Anything less is unconscionable, unacceptable.
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Obama-haters really should do a bit more reading, you might find the story is more complicated than "Obama ordered harassment of real Americans"

June 26, 2013, 12:11 am
IG: Audit of IRS actions limited to Tea Party groups at GOP request

The Treasury inspector general (IG) whose report helped drive the IRS targeting controversy says it limited its examination to conservative groups because of a request from House Republicans.

A spokesman for Russell George, Treasury’s inspector general for tax administration, said they were asked by House Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) “to narrowly focus on Tea Party organizations.”

The inspector general’s audit found that groups seeking tax-exempt status with “Tea Party” and “patriots” in their name did receive extra attention from the IRS, with some facing years of delay and inappropriate questions from the agency.
But top congressional Democrats have wielded new information from the IRS this week that liberal groups were also flagged for extra attention on the sorts of “be on the lookout” lists (BOLOs) that also tripped up conservative groups.

The spokesman for the Treasury inspector general noted their audit acknowledged there were other watch lists. But the spokesman added: "We did not review the use, disposition, purpose or content of the other BOLOs. That was outside the scope of our audit.”
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That was last year and then last month, more 'interesting' news came out
February 4, 2014 Next Wrinkle in IRS Flap: Does the IG Secretly Powwow with Republicans?
In the latest in the ongoing and politicized dispute over the Internal Revenue Service’s mishandling of tax-exemption applications, Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., and Rep. Gerald E. Connolly, D-Va., sent a Feb. 4 letter to Inspector General J. Russell George objecting “strongly to your office’s repeated partisan meetings with Chairman Darrell Issa and his staff after intentionally excluding Democratic Committee Members and staff -- particularly regarding matters that currently are under active investigation by both your office and this committee.” Cummings is the ranking member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, and Connolly is the top Democrat on the panel’s Government Operations subcommittee.
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The IRS Inspector General, J. Russell George, is a hold-over from the previous Administration; he was not appointed by Obama.
 
I guess they have no choice but to give her immunity. The truth is more important than hanging one particular head on a pole.
 
eohrnberger said:
Agreed. It seems to be the only thing that makes sense.

I figure there's a direct line to the White House she's hiding, and the pay off is going to be big for her from various administration types, once they are out of office.

Would seem to me that all the congress members, regardless of political party, would be hot after this issue, abusing the IRS into enforcing the administration in-power's preferences as to political affiliations. If the congress members aren't interested in that, then the administration in power pretty much has permission by precedence, the precedence that's just been set.

No. This issue, and it's investigation, MUST be perused, and present and future administrations MUST be denied the use of the IRS as a political enforcement arm. Anything less is unconscionable, unacceptable.
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Lost in the drama of the Watergate investigation was the fact Richard Nixon was under investigation for doing just that. He had used the IRS and it's "selective auditing" mandate to harass a lot of enemies in his own party and Democrats, not the least of which was the national campaign manager for George McGovern.

It was a crime then and the Democrats went nuts.

But now it's cool and any possible probe that might even suggest a remote whiff of an idea that more than this woman were involved should be shouted down and obstructed by rants in the guise of a point of order.

At least the lemmings have moved off the memes that it's racist, Bush did it too, the Republicans are responsible, and combined all of it with the certainty without looking that there is nothing to this.

This very much makes me want to see what the Democratic Party is all about; what I do see is repulsive.
 
Somerville said:
Obama-haters really should do a bit more reading, you might find the story is more complicated than "Obama ordered harassment of real Americans"
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I was never caught in that. My concern is more so for the future, now that this precedence use of the IRS has been set. I think my post was pretty clear about that. Specifically:
No. This issue, and it's investigation, MUST be perused, and present and future administrations MUST be denied the use of the IRS as a political enforcement arm. Anything less is unconscionable, unacceptable.
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So I'd call your post a deflection fail.

Somerville said:
That was last year and then last month, more 'interesting' news came out
The IRS Inspector General, J. Russell George, is a hold-over from the previous Administration; he was not appointed by Obama.
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I don't see how anything in your your post mitigates anything in my post or my position.
 
Mithros said:
I agree that every side should be outraged at wrongdoing; namely the unlawful creation of political groups under the guise of social welfare 501c4's for the sole purpose of anonymously contributing unlimited amounts to campaigns.

Any political group, Tea Party or otherwise, is free to form a tax exempt 527 group. They're also free to simply declare themselves to be 501c4's without any need for pre-approval by the IRS. The only reason to get pre-approval for a 501c4 is if you think your group is questionable and don't want to risk exposing your donors.
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Try to stay on topic. If you can.
 
Somerville said:
Obama-haters really should do a bit more reading, you might find the story is more complicated than "Obama ordered harassment of real Americans"



That was last year and then last month, more 'interesting' news came out
The IRS Inspector General, J. Russell George, is a hold-over from the previous Administration; he was not appointed by Obama.
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So why is Lerner taking the Fifth?
 
Fletch said:
Try to stay on topic. If you can.
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You mean the topic of how Issa lied when he said that Lerner had agreed to testify when that was obviously not the case? What exactly was his motivation? hmm.....
 
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