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Thread: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    I think its depends on how you read the treaty and it is worth pointing out that diplomats are still reading over the treaty as we speak so nothing certain. It's this paticular wording that worries me.

    "The three powers committed to “respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine” and “refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine”.


    Clearly Russia have broken this agreement and now the question is how will the West react? If we fail to act on this then what does this mean for all our other treaties worldwide and our overall global position?
    What are our friends the Brits saying about it over there?

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    I think its depends on how you read the treaty and it is worth pointing out that diplomats are still reading over the treaty as we speak so nothing certain. It's this paticular wording that worries me.

    "The three powers committed to “respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine” and “refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine”.

    Clearly Russia have broken this agreement and now the question is how will the West react? If we fail to act on this then what does this mean for all our other treaties worldwide and our overall global position?
    What you've quoted of the treaty here doesn't indicate that force would be used or that any of the signatories promised to protect the Ukraine...?

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    There's some interesting insight on this thread. Thank to all.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Putin has received permission from the Russian Parliament to mobilize the country's military in the Ukraine. Parliament has also requested that the Russian Ambassador be recalled from the United States in light of President Obama's remarks yesterday.

    I guess we showed him. The President's timing on this one was all wrong.

    Putin gets permission to use military in Ukraine; parliament wants to pull ambassador in DC | Fox News

    Why are we getting involved in this?
    A few months ago the nation made it pretty clear to President Obama that they did NOT want anything to do with a war in Syria and he backed away. We need to do the same thing with this situation.

    We do NOT need to get involved in this in any way shape or form.
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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    You're overlooking that Crimea is part of Ukraine which is a sovereign nation despite you buying into the pro-Russian rhetoric. No one is bitching about Russia securing it's military assets in Crimea. The fear is that Russia will impose it's puppet back in Kiev. Russia is the one escalating the situation. Not us, or the gov't in Kiev.
    Oversimplified.

    Crimea is autonomous and can ask for Russian intervention, which it did. The realpolitik of this situation is that the Ukraine is heavily divided over its loyalties to Russia vs. the EU and it's not as simple as 'poor Ukraine got oppressed by the USSR oops I mean Russia'. I'm merely balancing out the spin that I'm reading in places like CNN and the BBC. As soon as the headline "Russian military invades..." hits the airwaves, people lose their **** and once emotions take hold people are no longer rational.

    Yes, it's possible that Russia will use this as an opportunity to install a puppet back into Kiev. Everyone knows that already. I'm hoping they won't, but it's a realistic possibility. Russia could do that without invading though, as could the CIA and MI5, but having a physical presence ensures that Russia will have greater control over the security situation. Russia saw the gong show in Egypt and Syria. It's not going to let the Ukraine become the next casualty in the western bloc's intervention politics. I believe that, combined with securing an economic partner and treaty obligations, is why Russia is there right now.

    What I foresee is that Russia will somehow claim that the Kiev provisional government has lost control of the situation, its assets are in danger, and half of pro-Russian Ukraine (mainly the east) will be leveraged via propaganda to re-take Kiev and install a pro-Russian government. NATO will sit by and twiddle its thumbs, making idle threats, because no one wants to poke this sleeping tiger, not over something like the Ukraine. The EU won't do anything because they don't jump until the U.S. jumps, and the U.S. won't jump because it's already stretched to thin and the risk of protracted conflict with Russia is not an option right now. Putin knows it. I just think it's really sad that the protesters achieved such a great victory in deposing the former leadership only to have a much greater power come in and sweep that all away.

    I'm not pro-anything. I'm into politics and studying situations as they unfold. Keep your snarky, personal attacks to yourself.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    Oversimplified.

    Crimea is autonomous and can ask for Russian intervention, which it did. The realpolitik of this situation is that the Ukraine is heavily divided over its loyalties to Russia vs. the EU and it's not as simple as 'poor Ukraine got oppressed by the USSR oops I mean Russia'. I'm merely balancing out the spin that I'm reading in places like CNN and the BBC. As soon as the headline "Russian military invades..." hits the airwaves, people lose their **** and once emotions take hold people are no longer rational.

    Yes, it's possible that Russia will use this as an opportunity to install a puppet back into Kiev. Everyone knows that already. I'm hoping they won't, but it's a realistic possibility. Russia could do that without invading though, as could the CIA and MI5, but having a physical presence ensures that Russia will have greater control over the security situation. Russia saw the gong show in Egypt and Syria. It's not going to let the Ukraine become the next casualty in the western bloc's intervention politics. I believe that, combined with securing an economic partner and treaty obligations, is why Russia is there right now.

    What I foresee is that Russia will somehow claim that the Kiev provisional government has lost control of the situation, its assets are in danger, and half of pro-Russian Ukraine (mainly the east) will be leveraged via propaganda to re-take Kiev and install a pro-Russian government. NATO will sit by and twiddle its thumbs, making idle threats, because no one wants to poke this sleeping tiger, not over something like the Ukraine. The EU won't do anything because they don't jump until the U.S. jumps, and the U.S. won't jump because it's already stretched to thin and the risk of protracted conflict with Russia is not an option right now. Putin knows it. I just think it's really sad that the protesters achieved such a great victory in deposing the former leadership only to have a much greater power come in and sweep that all away.

    I'm not pro-anything. I'm into politics and studying situations as they unfold. Keep your snarky, personal attacks to yourself.
    It isn't oversimplified. It is a fact that Ukraine is a sovereign nation. Also fact is that Crimea is part of Ukraine. Russia has no right to militarily intervene just because it doesn't like the new government in Kiev. It does have a right to secure its military assets. I'm unaware that seizing an airport (2 of them from what I've seen), surrounding Ukrainian boarder guard stations, and deploying warships in the black sea are legitimate moves to secure military assets. Assertions to the contrary are based on pro-Russian rhetoric, which you seem to have bought in to. That is not a personal attack (don't be so sensitive), that appears to be reality because it is your position.

    Lastly, it is Crimea and Russia that are escalating the situation. I haven't heard reports of Ukrainian military seizing places in Crimea, I haven't heard of Kiev instituting anti-ethnic Russian legislation against Crimea, I haven't heard of masked armed Ukrainian gunmen taking over a government building in Crimea. These are all things that Crimea and Russia have done. Everyone should take a step back, take a breath, and give the new government a shot before escalating things to the degree they are becoming.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Welcome to the world without American leadership, folks.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    The news out of/about Ukraine have gotten too depressing for me to read.

    I am quite tied up in the whole affair. For me, personally, seeing the Ukrainian people win in deposing their corrupt govt was more than just a "hip hip hooray" thing, it touches me on a more personal level as an eastern european. I can heavily, and do heavily relate to every word those protesters spoke when they wanted to end corruption and a govt for them, and a new start. That sentiment is heavily resounding in all former communist countries. heck, even in Poland, which is like, the best former communist country (I'm not counting the eastern germany because that doesn't exist as a separate entity anymore), is still cleansing itself of the filth leftover by communism.

    And now it's all going to ****.

    So basically russian armed forced will enter Crimea and they'll take it. Maybe they'll enter some of Ukraine's eastern territories. Do a bit of surprise-anschluss because why not.

    You can't do anything. Nobody can. You can counter the russian invasion. Not the USA. Not the EU. Nobody. Why? Because it's Russia and you don't want this cold war 2.0 to become a really, really hot war.

    So if the russians will want Crimea, they'll take Crimea. if they'll want to take Kharkiv Oblast, Luhasnka Oblast and/or Donestk Oblast... they'll tkae them all. They can take even Zaporishnya which is a very beautiful city and a lot of the East and SE regions which are Russian speaking predominantly...

    Russian Parliament approved invasion of Ukraine
    UN security council in emergency meeting after Russian parliament approves use of military against Ukraine- live updates | World news | theguardian.com

    It's over.

    You know, for me, this is quite defeating, spiritually. It reminds me of why the Republic of Moldavia exists and why transnistria exists. If you don't know what those are, google them. It's crushing. Ofc, for me, its' crushing spiritually... for the ukrainians it will be crushing for real.
    Are you concerned of what might happen next?

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Are you concerned of what might happen next?

    Exactly what is your proposal?

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Because you signed one of those pesky treaties.
    We sign some really stupid treaties.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Are you in the least concerned of what might happen next?
    Yes, I am concerned, but not because of that BS map you posted. that's, you know... crazy talk. Russia isn't going to go rampage. It's going to take Crimea, maybe 2-3 of the eastern Oblasts like Khargiv or Donetsk because those are with majority ethnic russian population who have made mass demonstrations in the streets pro-Russia and they entered public buildings and put up russian flags on top... much like what happened in Crimea.

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