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Thread: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Funny, I see more similarities between Obama and
    Attachment 67162856
    I wouldn't go anywhere near that far - however, the Neville Chamberlain naivete and appeasement gene is and has been alive and active in the Obama Administration.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    I always feel the reason the UN is kinda worthless is because of the way the Security Council is set up. Whoever came up with those rules for the Security Council either has terrible long-term though processes or is very idealistic.
    Think about when it was first set up, Nationalist China was on the Security Council instead of the Peoples Republic of China (Red China). Taiwan or Formosa as it was know then were staunch allies of us. The USSR had been our ally during WWII and a lot of Americans still referred to Stalin as Uncle Joe. France, Britain and us round out the security council. No one had any idea that the cold war was right around the corner.

    The feeling was in the beginning it was five friendly allies who would keep tabs on the world and keep any more Hitlers or Tojo's from arising. So much for the good plans of mice and men.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    : And when you consider that it is all escaping into the air, probably contributing to global warming, it's a darn shame!

    Greetings, Pero. Excellent March blog entry!
    Thanks Pol. Yeah for the most part the UN has just been a waste of time, energy and money. Although it does give a place for all nations to fill it with their hot air and express their beefs in the hope that perhaps another war may be prevented.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Because I'm sure they're going to put "Meeting with Joint Chiefs to discuss Top Secret plans and strategy to defend Ukraine" on the public schedule that they post on the internet....
    A CNN static camera showed, about an hour ago, the entire National Security Council at the White House.

    The President wouldn't usually get involved until his staff has recommendations to make, so he can then make a decision.

    Now, I said usually. In extremely dangerous situations, POTUS is in the room the entire time. So far, this doesn't seem to rise to that level.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Because I'm sure they're going to put "Meeting with Joint Chiefs to discuss Top Secret plans and strategy to defend Ukraine" on the public schedule that they post on the internet....
    Remember, Obama has already purged the top brass from the military and has his yes men already in place.

    Well we do have 3 out out 33 combat brigades that are properly trained and equipped that can be deployed.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    I see a lot of similarities between Neville Chamberlain and Obama.
    Which sounds really deep if you completely misunderstand the situation in 1938 when Britain was in no shape to go to war. They weren't in much of a position in 1939 or 40 either, which is why they needed the US to get involved.

    Chamberlain going to war then could easily have resulted in a German victory that would make any victory ever that much more difficult. Yes, he "appeased" Hitler because going to war in 1938 wasn't really an option for him. Similarly a war between the US and Russia would quickly escalate into a nuclear exchange which would probably end your party really quick. You guys are quick to point out military drawdowns in this situation, but you fail to realize that conventional capabilities mean nothing in a war with Russia.

    There's not going to be a conventional war with them ever. The only question is are you willing to turn North America into a nuclear wasteland over the Crimea?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Remember, Obama has already purged the top brass from the military and has his yes men already in place.


    Well we do have 3 out out 33 combat brigades that are properly trained and equipped that can be deployed.
    It doesn't matter against Russia. The only war with Russia is going to be nuclear. Do you want to die for Ukraine?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Because you signed one of those pesky treaties.
    The U.S. has no agreement that requires its intervention in Ukraine. It is one of the parties to a non-aggression agreement, which is different from an alliance.

    Having said this, President Putin's decisions are shaped by factors including:

    1. Russia's interests. Crimea is a critical interest given the Russian Naval base at Sevastopol and majority ethnic Russian population there.
    2. The balance of power. This shapes his calculus when it comes to the feasibility of using force.
    3. His loathing for perceptions of weakness. President Obama should have conveyed his message privately. By doing so publicly, he positioned Putin to be perceived as weak, hence that posturing backfired. I use posturing to refer to warnings that are not backed by credible means to enforce them.
    4. Past precedent. President Putin has long criticized the U.S./NATO's carving away Kosovo from Serbia stating that it had established a precedent. Crimea, especially with a supportive majority ethnic population, falls squarely into that precedent.

    In the end, this is a bad situation. Ukraine likely will lose Crimea. The U.S. can and should resort to non-military punishment, but the reality is that those means likely won't have much impact on Russia. Russia had long-coveted deeper trade relations, but the U.S. dragged its feet and there's no free trade agreement between the two countries. Hence, U.S. cancellation of any consideration of such an agreement is largely symbolic, as it merely prolongs a status quo that Russia has increasingly expected to be permanent.

    Meanwhile, in that context, the U.S. is reducing military manpower. That's not necessarily a wise move, but the lesson that manpower matters from Iraq seems not to have been learned. The balance of power implications of reduced U.S. military capability won't be lost on countries such as Russia where the balance of power remains an overriding consideration in shaping their strategic flexibility.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 03-01-14 at 03:34 PM.

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Which sounds really deep if you completely misunderstand the situation in 1938 when Britain was in no shape to go to war. They weren't in much of a position in 1939 or 40 either, which is why they needed the US to get involved.

    Chamberlain going to war then could easily have resulted in a German victory that would make any victory ever that much more difficult. Yes, he "appeased" Hitler because going to war in 1938 wasn't really an option for him. Similarly a war between the US and Russia would quickly escalate into a nuclear exchange which would probably end your party really quick. You guys are quick to point out military drawdowns in this situation, but you fail to realize that conventional capabilities mean nothing in a war with Russia.

    There's not going to be a conventional war with them ever. The only question is are you willing to turn North America into a nuclear wasteland over the Crimea?
    Exactly which part of "you guys" am I part of in your opinion?

    The US and Russia never fought each other or could be aggressors to each other without it going to nuclear war? Korea? Vietnam? Numerous African conflicts?

    Maybe you should define better from where this interpretation of what I said comes from.

    Neville Chamberlain gave away parts of other countries that were not his to give away. Revisionist history on your part maybe?

    Maybe I should have just made one comment in response to your post to me, which would have been simply... WTF are you talking about?

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    Re: Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The U.S. has no agreement that requires its intervention in Ukraine. It is one of the parties to a non-aggression agreement, which is different from an alliance.

    Having said this, President Putin's decisions are shaped by factors including:

    1. Russia's interests. Crimea is a critical interest given the Russian Naval base at Sevastopol and majority ethnic Russian population there.
    2. The balance of power. This shapes his calculus when it comes to the feasibility of using force.
    3. His loathing for perceptions of weakness. President Obama should have conveyed his message privately. By doing so publicly, he positioned Putin to be perceived as weak, hence that posturing backfired. I use posturing to refer to warnings that are not backed by credible means to enforce them.
    4. Past precedent. President Putin has long criticized the U.S./NATO's carving away Kosovo from Serbia stating that it had established a precedent. Crimea, especially with a supportive majority ethnic population, falls squarely into that precedent.

    In the end, this is a bad situation. Ukraine likely will lose Crimea. The U.S. can and should resort to non-military punishment, but the reality is that those means likely won't have much impact on Russia. Russia had long-coveted deeper trade relations, but the U.S. dragged its feet and there's no free trade agreement between the two countries. Hence, U.S. cancellation of any consideration of such an agreement is largely symbolic, as it merely prolongs a status quo that Russia has increasingly expected to be permanent.

    Meanwhile, in that context, the U.S. is reducing military manpower. That's not necessarily a wise move, but the lesson that manpower matters from Iraq seems not to have been learned. The balance of power implications of reduced U.S. military capability won't be lost on countries such as Russia where the balance of power remains an overriding consideration in shaping their strategic flexibility.
    A narrative of pure 'international power relations' there, Don.

    Paul
    RIP THE EUROPEAN FORUM 2016

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