• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

MadLib said:
Then why did you say 20 years? Backtracking much?
Click to expand...
Not backtracking at all. It's just a round number where Gaddafi was actually reaching out and helping the rest of northern Africa that was in need.

MadLib said:
I would get rid of it ASAP, since I'm supposedly collaborating with MI6 to dismantle the Khan network.
Click to expand...
It would make nice bait for that purpose, wouldn't it?

MadLib said:
The difference is that the US isn't a repressive dictatorship with a cult of personality around our leader.
Click to expand...
I accept this as a dislike for him, but then why are we attacking Libya instead of the 100 other nations or so that are worse yet?

MadLib said:
What would you do if a politician seized absolute power for 40 years and fired on protestors who criticized him? Our own precedent if anything should demonstrate the right of a people to violent revolution against tyranny.
Click to expand...
Have you ever watched those videos that claimed he had his military fire on protesters? Even see how many weapons they were carrying and who fired the first shots...

LOL @ Calling a rebel militia protesters...

MadLib said:
There is no Western propaganda machine, just a sensationalist media. And even if it did exist, it hardly had any convincing to do - Gaddafi vowing to search every home in Benghazi and wipe out the rebel "rats" spoke for itself.
Click to expand...
How many other leaders do you wish to decimate because they don't follow the constitution of the United States?
 
24107 said:
Your snappy one liners are not sufficient proof for people who are intelligent and can think for themselves. :peace
Click to expand...

You're talking to something that would require you to bend below anything you could ever imagine. Many of the people you engage here are or have worked for the US government. Only occasionally will you find an honest person. Apologists are the norm.
 
GPS_Flex said:
Obviously you are in propaganda mode. Go ahead, throw everything you can dream up at the wall and only defend those things that look like they might stick. I wouldn’t argue with me either if I were you but I appreciate your compliment and I’m disappointed that you’re taking your toys and going home so soon.

I understand. Truth is hard to defend because it takes serious thought and steadfastness. Propaganda is easy because it isn’t anchored in truth, which takes serious thought, steadfastness and way more work than a propagandist is willing to put in.

When your propaganda tour is finished and you have time for the real world, look me up.
Click to expand...

Well then, aren't you just a little bad ass dude. Prolly think you have something big down there too!
 
MadLib said:
Actually, half the people I've seen talk about it have brought that irony up.

There's no conspiracy.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about conspiracy. I'm talking about hypocrisy!
 
MadLib said:
Jalil's testimony is good enough until evidence surfaces to refute his claim. Besides, Gaddafi was a destabilizing and anti-Western force in more instances than just Lockerbie.
Click to expand...

If that's what it was all about, why weren't previous U.S. governments trying to topple Gaddafi decades ago? Instead, they imposed sanctions, and Bush II worked out a deal where sanctions would be lifted in exchange for Libya giving up it's nuclear development program. What's the underlying message to any other nations with secret weapons programs? You should be able to connect the dots here.

What really makes me sick about...what qualifies as news coverage these days, is that as soon as Gaddafi was overthrown - end of story...time to move on to the next international train wreck. In Libya, Obama has done what Bush accomplished with his "regime change" operations - left behind failed states that are violent and ungovernable! Except for Benghazigate...the storming of the American Consulate (recruitment center) that led to the death of the U.S. ambassador, there are no followup stories on Libya. Or, there are, if you go to CNN International for the story: Two Libyan lawmakers shot as protesters storm congress, members say
At least two members of Libya's General National Congress were shot and wounded after protesters stormed its headquarters in Tripoli on Sunday evening, according to congress members.........................................................
Violence levels in the city have spiked over recent weeks with assassinations, kidnappings and bombings becoming near daily occurrences in the city that was the cradle of Libya's revolution.

While no group has claimed responsibility for the rising violence in Benghazi, residents and officials blame the violence on Islamist extremist groups.

Last week security forces found the bodies of seven Egyptian Christians dumped west of the city.
Click to expand...
 
Montecresto said:
So you're ok with Americans being hoodwinked by the government, just as long as you're in favour of what they're doing, or expanding the operation beyond the UN resolution, if you like the purpose of the expansion. Or maybe you're just generally ok with US intrigue, conspiracy, deceit, disregard for national sovereignty, human rights, international law, respect for our ally's, everything , if you think it advances American interests, dispute the fact that they are rarely if ever going to be your interests. Unless you happen to own a large international corporation, happen to own a defense contacting corporation etc.
Click to expand...

Or maybe Madlib means Obamabot liberal - everything a Democratic president does, must not be criticized....even if he's doing exactly the same things as the vilified Republican president.
 
MadLib said:
You were making a false moral equivalence, comparing non-targets accidentally killed in a legitimate operation to protests being fired upon by armed policemen (some of them using snipers).

By the way, the protests were originally peaceful until the Ukrainian government used riot police to disperse them.
Click to expand...

The demonstrators started firebombing the police several days before those shooting occurred! I would agree that the sniper attacks were likely from police or some other irregular militia supporting the Government; but who do you think you're kidding, saying the protests were originally peaceful?

This all detracts from the question I had when this whole Maidan movement thing started building up to topple the Government - did the U.S. or European interests really thing they were going to add the Ukraine as another notch on their belts of former Soviet republics that now have NATO bases and economies dominated by western corporations and banks? Or, did they not really care about what Ukraine would look like after it officially or unofficially divides between western and Russian sections?
 
Montecresto said:
Makes you feel macho huh. What are you worth, a 1943 zinc penny. Little boy.
Click to expand...

Probably less....At least in the authoritarian leftists eyes. Because progressives like you don't value anything or anyone that doesn't parrot your puerile ideas. As for "little boy" I guess I deserved that, but I wish I were still young.
 
Blah, blah, blah...the Ukraine is broke and they want handouts...that, IMO, is what this is mostly about.

Not that I blame them...because they probably know that the west leaders are corrupt/dumb enough AND it's masses ignorant enough to hand over their tax dollars to this 'cry for help'.

Of course, most of the money they hand over will go to corrupt officials...not to the people.

Will the masses ever learn?
 
I SUPPORT Russia in this matter.

This whole news cover is not in any way neutral.

On the 21. february the democratic elected president, Viktor Janukovitj, agreed to find a compromise between the opposition, with the participation of the foreign ministers from Poland, France, Germany and Russia and the Ukrainian government.

Demonstraters then attacked the police with firearms and took over several government buildings. The president was forced to flee and on the way of of Kijev, his convoj was being shot at.

The demonstraters says its only selfdefence, as the police killed several people. Im not sure whats up and down in this, but a telephone call between the foreign minister of Estonia and the EU's foreign minister, reveals new evidence, that the snipers who shot demonstraters, was in fact a part of the opposition.

How can we support a government, which is not elected democraticly and have not accepted the rules of the constitution?
 
TheGreatDane said:
I SUPPORT Russia in this matter.

This whole news cover is not in any way neutral.

On the 21. february the democratic elected president, Viktor Janukovitj, agreed to find a compromise between the opposition, with the participation of the foreign ministers from Poland, France, Germany and Russia and the Ukrainian government.

Demonstraters then attacked the police with firearms and took over several government buildings. The president was forced to flee and on the way of of Kijev, his convoj was being shot at.

The demonstraters says its only selfdefence, as the police killed several people. Im not sure whats up and down in this, but a telephone call between the foreign minister of Estonia and the EU's foreign minister, reveals new evidence, that the snipers who shot demonstraters, was in fact a part of the opposition.

How can we support a government, which is not elected democraticly and have not accepted the rules of the constitution?
Click to expand...

Again, US foreign policy is on the wrong side.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Damn strait it's not acceptable. I do believe in innocent until proven guilty. If he was guilty that many years back, he should have been taken out back then. Not as a weasel excuse for what was done a few years ago. Especially since Libya was progressing so far.

Are you in favor of what the "Arab Spring" is doing?
Click to expand...

I appreciate your frustration. You'll just have to take my good faith on faith. Arab spring? Yes.:peace
 
Lord of Planar said:
Not backtracking at all. It's just a round number where Gaddafi was actually reaching out and helping the rest of northern Africa that was in need.
Click to expand...
You mean by invading Chad and Egypt?

It would make nice bait for that purpose, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. If you mean to say

I accept this as a dislike for him, but then why are we attacking Libya instead of the 100 other nations or so that are worse yet?
Click to expand...
Because it was in our interests to do so, and because a rebel movement was already in place to take him out. Not all dictators are created equal, and sometimes we need to prioritize. Trust me, I'd be all for doing something about North Korea were it not for China.

Have you ever watched those videos that claimed he had his military fire on protesters? Even see how many weapons they were carrying and who fired the first shots...

LOL @ Calling a rebel militia protesters..
Click to expand...
.
Do you have a link for this? Thanks.

How many other leaders do you wish to decimate because they don't follow the constitution of the United States?
Click to expand...

What a loaded question.
 
MadLib said:
You mean by invading Chad and Egypt?
Click to expand...
LOL... Lybia and Chad were at it before Gadafi was in power, and Egypt was planning to attack Libya. have you seen this:

http://www.sadat.umd.edu/archives/Egyptian_Israel Negotiations\4.pdf

MadLib said:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. If you mean to say
Click to expand...
Using the yellowcake as a commodity to sell, as bait.

MadLib said:
Because it was in our interests to do so, and because a rebel movement was already in place to take him out.
Click to expand...
But the rebel movement is known to be a group worse than him. The only purpose can be to want a destabilized Middle east. There is no honorable purpose here. Libya will not be worse than it has been for decades.

MadLib said:
Not all dictators are created equal, and sometimes we need to prioritize.
Click to expand...
I agree, but firmly disagree on the choice made here.

When is the last time you can factually trace anything Gaddafi has done to deserve such action. Why do you speak of actions four decades old? Is that the best you have?

MadLib said:
Trust me, I'd be all for doing something about North Korea were it not for China.
Click to expand...
What have they done to us, or other countries outside of chain rattling?

MadLib said:
Do you have a link for this? Thanks.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to look. Apparently you weren't watching back in 2011 when they were being pointed out. Go back and look at protest YouTube videos. Why do peaceful protester carry weapons? In some of these, you see them firing first if you look closely, unless in over site they were shown and have been pulled since.

MadLib said:
What a loaded question.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is. It is meant to make people think. What has Gaddafi done in the last 20 years of his power, when most other nations have done far worse, and we just twiddle our thumbs.

Hypocrisy anyone?

You know why we knocked out Gaddafi?

It;'s because he was starting to become a big player in the world game. He had a strong economy and wanted to unite Africa. He had the 8th wonder built, and Libya was thriving. Too bad we bombed the 8th wonder. Anyone know if it ever got repaired?
 
NIMBY said:
You go with that hot mic, I'll go with No Drama Obama.
Click to expand...
What was Obama actually whispering to his Komrade to tell the former KGB agent? No drama? It's our national security he is keen to sell out.

I"ll go with the current hot air from a dozen GOPs undercutting the President in a new crisis, just as with Syria.
Click to expand...
ROTFLOL... this coming from a party that did their utmost to undermine Bush43 and the troops on the battlefield... and this after the D's in the senate asked for and got a 2nd vote to send troops to war!

The Demokrats are vile scum that are willing to send troops to war and then stab them in the back... and in both accounts for political expediency. Filthy, disgusting scumbags.

This also from a party who had a Senate majority Leader claim "This War is Lost" to the joy of terrorists and Al Jazeera?

Obama is weak... there is no hiding it. Fark... even the WaPo editors claimed Obama's foreign policy is a "fantasy". They could have put childish in front of "fantasy", but I think they were trying to limit the damage... as always.
 
I made a serious error, corrected:

Lord of Planar said:
But the rebel movement is known to be a group worse than him. The only purpose can be to want a destabilized Middle east. There is no honorable purpose here. Libya will not [now] be worse than it has been for decades.
Click to expand...
 
zimmer said:
What was Obama actually whispering to his Komrade to tell the former KGB agent? No drama? It's our national security he is keen to sell out.


ROTFLOL... this coming from a party that did their utmost to undermine Bush43 and the troops on the battlefield... and this after the D's in the senate asked for and got a 2nd vote to send troops to war!

The Demokrats are vile scum that are willing to send troops to war and then stab them in the back... and in both accounts for political expediency. Filthy, disgusting scumbags.

This also from a party who had a Senate majority Leader claim "This War is Lost" to the joy of terrorists and Al Jazeera?

Obama is weak... there is no hiding it. Fark... even the WaPo editors claimed Obama's foreign policy is a "fantasy". They could have put childish in front of "fantasy", but I think they were trying to limit the damage... as always.
Click to expand...

Firm but fair. Who can ever forget Harry Reid with "The War is lost". Harry Reid: Iraq War Is Lost - YouTube
 
Lord of Planar said:
LOL... Lybia and Chad were at it before Gadafi was in power, and Egypt was planning to attack Libya. have you seen this:
Click to expand...

No. The war with Chad was Qaddafi's doing. What he didn't count on was that the Chadians would beat Libyan forces so thoroughly. Ouadi Doum and Faya Largeau were smashing Chadian victories.:peace
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom