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Thread: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Good try. You loose your status as protesters and become a mob of thugs when you start destroying public property and injuring police. See the distinction?
    Really? Even when the property represents a tyrannical regime and the police are enforcers of tyranny? What level of oppression is required to justify violent resistance? Our own country is the product of a violent uprising.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I do not understand why your having trouble with this, unless you are just enjoying being contrary. I don't believe that at this point Russia has violated IL. I do believe the US has a long history of it. It does appear that you may have just conceded yourself that Russia hasn't violated IL, citing that people may just be condemning Russia for doing what's good for them, but maybe isn't good for the West/US.
    mother_of_god_Half_Life_2_Lamp-s233x249-341301-580.jpg

    This is just...sweet jesus, man. It's not even your opinions- it's your deplorable cognitive skills.

    Let's take this step-by-step, since apparently you need every damn inch laid out for you

    "I don't believe that at this point Russia has violated IL. I do believe the US has a long history of it." That's great. That's...silly, but let's accept it and just look at how well you do or don't think. If you believe that I just quoted you as writing than why would you think that anybody excusing what the US has done in the last 13 years while condemning Russia would be the inconsistent ones? They would have nothing to do with each other! The only way that "anybody excusing what the US has done in the last 13 years while condemning Russia would be the inconsistent ones" would be if both the US and Russia violated international law (which they both have done). So that point you made wasn't even internally consistent using your own argument. That's why I told you to reread it. That's why I told you the transitive property is, by definition, transitive. But you didn't reread it and you didn't get it.

    Now for the second "oh my god did he really just say that" moment from your post:

    "It does appear that you may have just conceded yourself that Russia hasn't violated IL, citing that people may just be condemning Russia for doing what's good for them, but maybe isn't good for the West/US."

    Huh? Wha? Why? How? How could you possibly come to that conclusion? I'm saying that people might condemn Russian actions as not being good for American interests, REGARDLESS of whether or not they violated international law or whether they care about international law. And you somehow took that to mean that I believe Russia did not? lol WHY? Why would you even come to that conclusion? I'm honestly laughing as I'm typing this, because it makes no sense. Just laughing out of incredulity. It's like you simply can't understand that someone might not think like you do.

    "Errr, that guy doesn't care whether or not Russia violated international law, he just doesn't like them expanding power at the expense of the West? Durrrr, by golly, that must mean he doesn't think Russia violated international law!"

    The repeated and flagrant violations against critical thinking and cognitive ability that you're guilty of make it all but impossible to have an actual conversation about events with you. You consistently hold nations to different standards, you consistently shift the goalposts as far as what you're arguing, and- and this is the worst- you consistently assume that when someone says X, they mean Y. And Y always, in your mind, helps to prove your point...except it only hammers home that you shifted the goalposts and hold different nations to different standards. It's like it's recursive. You can't talk about issues because you lack the ability to hold an extended conversation about anything in lucid manner. It's absurd at this point. I'm going to start to make a list, it's crazy.
    Last edited by OldWorldOrder; 03-04-14 at 07:07 PM.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Good try. You loose your status as protesters and become a mob of thugs when you start destroying public property and injuring police. See the distinction?
    So the 1999 Seattle WTO...opposition. They were protesters? Or they were a mob of thugs?

    Try to stay focused here. Don't start talking about how different countries have different standards, don't start trying to put words in people's mouths. Just...answer.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    mother_of_god_Half_Life_2_Lamp-s233x249-341301-580.jpg

    This is just...sweet jesus, man. It's not even your opinions- it's your deplorable cognitive skills.

    Let's take this step-by-step, since apparently you need every damn inch laid out for you

    "I don't believe that at this point Russia has violated IL. I do believe the US has a long history of it." That's great. That's...silly, but let's accept it and just look at how well you do or don't think. If you believe that I just quoted you as writing than why would you think that anybody excusing what the US has done in the last 13 years while condemning Russia would be the inconsistent ones? They would have nothing to do with each other! The only way that "anybody excusing what the US has done in the last 13 years while condemning Russia would be the inconsistent ones" would be if both the US and Russia violated international law (which they both have done). So that point you made wasn't even internally consistent using your own argument. That's why I told you to reread it. That's why I told you the transitive property is, by definition, transitive. But you didn't reread it and you didn't get it.

    Now for the second "oh my god did he really just say that" moment from your post:

    "It does appear that you may have just conceded yourself that Russia hasn't violated IL, citing that people may just be condemning Russia for doing what's good for them, but maybe isn't good for the West/US."

    Huh? Wha? Why? How? How could you possibly come to that conclusion? I'm saying that people might condemn Russia it's not good for American interests, REGARDLESS of whether or not they violated international law or whether they care about international law. And you somehow took that to mean that I believe Russia did not? lol WHY? Why would you even come to that conclusion? I'm honestly laughing as I'm typing this, because it makes no sense. Just laughing out of incredulity. It's like you simply can't understand that someone might not think like you do.

    "Errr, that guy doesn't care whether or not Russia violated international law, he just doesn't like them expanding power at the expense of the West? Durrrr, by golly, that must mean he doesn't think Russia violated international law!"

    The repeated and flagrant violations against critical thinking and cognitive ability that you're guilty of make it all but impossible to have an actual conversation about events with you. You consistently hold nations to different standards, you consistently shift the goalposts as far as what you're arguing, and- and this is the worst- you consistently assume that when someone says X, they mean Y. And Y always, in your mind, helps to prove your point...except it only hammers home that you shifted the goalposts and hold different nations to different standards. It's like it's recursive. You can't talk about issues because you lack the ability to hold an extended conversation about anything in lucid manner. It's absurd at this point. I'm going to start to make a list, it's crazy.
    Seriously!! With regard to violating international law, I'm focusing on this Ukrainian issue. Of course I know Russia has violated IL in history. IL is important only when someone else is violating it. Your making this simple concept complex, for what, why? Such trouble you put yourself through.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You do see the difference between Hitler's move and Putin though don't you?
    I don't. Hitler also claimed is first actions were to protect large German populations falsely declared being under attack.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So the 1999 Seattle WTO...opposition. They were protesters? Or they were a mob of thugs?

    Try to stay focused here. Don't start talking about how different countries have different standards, don't start trying to put words in people's mouths. Just...answer.
    They were a mob of thugs of course.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I don't. Hitler also claimed is first actions were to protect large German populations falsely declared being under attack.
    Ok, well we'll see.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Seriously!! With regard to violating international law, I'm focusing on this Ukrainian issue. Of course I know Russia has violated IL in history. IL is important only when someone else is violating it. Your making this simple concept complex, for what, why? Such trouble you put yourself through.
    This...isn't hard, Monte. It's not difficult to point out how ridiculous your arguments are.

    It's not hard to point out how ridiculously hypocritical you are, either. In trying to squirm out of being identified as a huge hypocrite, you make horrible, horrible logical fallacies and make it only that much more obvious.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    This...isn't hard, Monte. It's not difficult to point out how ridiculous your arguments are.

    It's not hard to point out how ridiculously hypocritical you are, either.
    Ok old, you massage yourself with that. I've got work to do on another thread too.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of Occupation calls for help from US/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ok old, you massage yourself with that. I've got work to do on another thread too.
    lol, I'm sure you do. Lots of "work".
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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